Valentino Bolognese Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: I dont know with Cleland, his one game this season arguably the best but you cant judge based on that. Im sure he said he wasnt interested this time though, and they wanted someone used to running an entire football department, not just the first team, which is why Martindale and Levein were targeted. I dont think you write the back 4 off because it didnt work with MacLean. Its "profiles not positions" that you need to think of really. So a back 5 works if youve got attacking wing backs etc., we dont so surely you play a back 4 with wingers in front who can play high instead? But we have managed obsessed with how they stop teams rather than how we hurt them, so a defensive back 5 it is. Agree with both points. The strength of the operational team will have been a major part of the selling offer. Having a highly experienced, high profile ex-national manager at the club is as much about our valuation and viability as the football IMO. Whether it's back 3, 4, 5 or even 6 as we've looked close to at times makes no difference if you have no players capable of playing wide with pace that can over/underlap, beat a man, cut inside or cross. Just look at Killie for how you can build a team to play that way in this division that works without breaking the bank. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamora Fan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 The squad is so unbalanced and Levein is the third manager in a row who’s not tried to address this (granted, he only had the January window .. but he still made lots of signings.) All of our centre-backs only look comfortable in a back 3. But all of our wing backs are actually full backs best in a back 4. All of our centre midfielders would be best in a midfield 3 with a destroyer type CDM behind them to mop up and do the defensive work. The only player in the squad who fits that description is out of favour. None of them are Millar, McCann, Davidson or even Bryson type players who can do the work of two men in there. The squad’s main creative player is best as an attacking midfielder. We have one fit winger, who has shown no signs of being anywhere near good enough for this level. There is not a single natural left winger in the squad. We had one striker suited to playing up front on his own. He now plays for Dunfermline. The rest are untested or much better in a partnership. Add all of those issues together and it’s very difficult to get a passable and competitive team together from the shite we’ve got to pick from. But it is worrying that Levein’s (Kirk’s?) answer to these difficult Qs is a back five full of square pegs, Carey playing deep, and a team with absolutely no presence or threat in the wide areas. And to sideline the players who might be able to help make it work. Mitov Keltjens McGowan Considine Gallagher Sprangler Smith Phillips Jaiyesimi (Wright) Carey Kimpioka IMO. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnoswald2712 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said: The squad is so unbalanced and Levein is the third manager in a row who’s not tried to address this (granted, he only had the January window .. but he still made lots of signings.) All of our centre-backs only look comfortable in a back 3. But all of our wing backs are actually full backs best in a back 4. All of our centre midfielders would be best in a midfield 3 with a destroyer type CDM behind them to mop up and do the defensive work. The only player in the squad who fits that description is out of favour. None of them are Millar, McCann, Davidson or even Bryson type players who can do the work of two men in there. The squad’s main creative player is best as an attacking midfielder. We have one fit winger, who has shown no signs of being anywhere near good enough for this level. There is not a single natural left winger in the squad. We had one striker suited to playing up front on his own. He now plays for Dunfermline. The rest are untested or much better in a partnership. Add all of those issues together and it’s very difficult to get a passable and competitive team together from the shite we’ve got to pick from. But it is worrying that Levein’s (Kirk’s?) answer to these difficult Qs is a back five full of square pegs, Carey playing deep, and a team with absolutely no presence or threat in the wide areas. And to sideline the players who might be able to help make it work. Mitov Keltjens McGowan Considine Gallagher Sprangler Smith Phillips Jaiyesimi (Wright) Carey Kimpioka IMO. Think you’ve absolutely nailed it. The general rule is make the system fit the players not the players fit the system. Unfortunately we don’t have pace in central defence which makes a back 3 better but we have no attacking wing backs so that should mean a back 4. This shows how important it is for the recruitment to be in sync with the style/formation required. I would like us to go Mitov Kjeltens. Gordon. Considine. Robinson McGowan M Smith. Phillips. Carey May. Clark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 16 minutes ago, Saint DBL said: Nothing to worry about, this time next week we’ll be 6 points better off and have Olufunwa in The Courier telling us we’ll be in the top 6. 1-1 draw with Aberdeen with them missing 4 open goals and us scoring from a corner. Courier putting out its 15th article in 12 months telling us a corners turned and we're on the rise. 7 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said: with absolutely no presence or threat in the wide areas. Have been wondering in the past few games if Sidibeh would be better used out wide for now? Would give him more space on the ball and let him face forwards too. Hes getting a bit lost up front for me recently. Would give him a chance to get used to the tempo and league in a simpler position while also giving us pace/directness out wide. You could pick 2 wingers from Sidibeh, Carey, Wright and Jaiyesimi, depending on how you want to play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamora Fan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 15 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Have been wondering in the past few games if Sidibeh would be better used out wide for now? Would give him more space on the ball and let him face forwards too. Hes getting a bit lost up front for me recently. Would give him a chance to get used to the tempo and league in a simpler position while also giving us pace/directness out wide. You could pick 2 wingers from Sidibeh, Carey, Wright and Jaiyesimi, depending on how you want to play. Decent idea. Could even go with him on the left (I like Carey best on the right) and see if he can cut inside and cause problems with his pace. I hope that’s the type of thing Levein and Kirk are at least mulling over but the lack of effort at trying new things when it’s not been working is worrying and very Davidson-esq. Banged this drum before but when we were in bad spells under King Tommy he would throw shit at the wall until something worked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Zamora Fan said: I hope that’s the type of thing Levein and Kirk are at least mulling over but the lack of effort at trying new things when it’s not been working is worrying and very Davidson-esq. Banged this drum before but when we were in bad spells under King Tommy he would throw shit at the wall until something worked. I dont think they are, they seem obsessed with the idea we can only play a back 5 with the CBs we have so its just all about tweaking the midfield/attack around that. Assume we'll be back to a lone striker and 2 midfielders pushing up again on Wednesday, so Max, Smith, Phillips and Carey in midfield. Always think back to 18/19 with TW. Had a run of losses where we got thumped by Celtic and Rangers back to by with them combined scoring double figures. He then started switching up between shapes almost every week and made it work. Things like Drey Wright in the centre of park in a 3-5-2 to drive play forward while Muzz and Craig just destroyed, then next week it was 4-4-2 with Watt and McMillan up front so we could more direct, then Kennedy and Watt up front. That season went to shit when he dropped Craig for Goss, obviously, but still 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentino Bolognese Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 If we play wingers I'd have Carey on the left and DJ on the right, personally. On his debut against St Mirren DJ looked pretty good as a winger, where he's played most of his career apparently. Despite being so slow. Adama not a bad shout either. Thing is, no matter what we do we still need full backs that can get up and down or we just leave space behind the wingers for opposition to run into, as we don't have pace anywhere except the new strikers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said: Thing is, no matter what we do we still need full backs that can get up and down or we just leave space behind the wingers for opposition to run into, as we don't have pace anywhere except the new strikers. I think Robinson/Gallacher/Keltjens could all overlap well, they just arent able to take people on 1v1 so when at wing back always go backwards or inside. Ideally their role with wingers would be restricted to distracting defenders to make space. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSJ.84 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: I dont think you write the back 4 off because it didnt work with MacLean. Its "profiles not positions" that you need to think of really. So a back 5 works if youve got attacking wing backs etc., we dont so surely you play a back 4 with wingers in front who can play high instead? But we have managed obsessed with how they stop teams rather than how we hurt them, so a defensive back 5 it is. A 2am Sunday morning post from me was never likely to be a good one. Not even sure I agree with it now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamora Fan Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Even James Brown looked okay in a back four with a winger ahead of him. It’s not a difficult position to play as long as you have some ability as a defender - just overlap the winger and put the ball into box. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said: Even James Brown looked okay in a back four with a winger ahead of him. It’s not a difficult position to play as long as you have some ability as a defender - just overlap the winger and put the ball into box. This. People just seem to be massively overthinking the defence for me. Just protect the space in front of them, let the CBs defend the box, and dont leave the FBs isolated. We beat Aberdeen 5-1 at Pittodrie once with Dave Mackay and Tam Scobbie as tbe CB pairing, and won the Scottish Cup with Steven Anderson and Frazer Wright in there. Better players all round that what we have now, but the point is that you dont need CBs who are quick to play a back four if you put some thought into the shape around them, while focusing on how to make the most of your best players. Instead we're stuck with a manager who builds a team with the main thought being whats best for the CBs. Edited February 25 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 FWIW thats us now bang on the 1 point per game point in the league under Levein. Games: 17 Wins: 4 Draws: 5 Losses: 8 Goals scored: 12 Goals conceded: 21 Points: 17 Currently our overall points tally at this stage is worse than last season, and just 1pt better than 21/22. We scored the same as 21/22 but conceded 5 more goals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSJ.84 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, PSJ.84 said: Id rather get relegated than have him back. This soft as shit squad would let him down and ruin his legacy, let him enjoy his life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSJ.84 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 11 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Id rather get relegated than have him back. This soft as shit squad would let him down and ruin his legacy, let him enjoy his life. Aye, I wouldn’t actually want him to come back for the same reason, but it’s been a long three seasons of feeling nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJFCtheTeamForMe Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: This. People just seem to be massively overthinking the defence for me. Just protect the space in front of them, let the CBs defend the box, and dont leave the FBs isolated. Which week after week we don't do especially the protecting in front of them. Everyone sees it... Then the next week it happens all over again. Easier said than done I know but they management have watched the games and there suggestion was to play Carey in front of the back three - laughable when you think about it! The Dundee match was a masterclass in leaving the full backs isolated. Happened against Airdrie as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broughty Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Why does every other team look so much better than us? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Has that c**t been sacked yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, Broughty said: Why does every other team look so much better than us? Because they are, probably. Ive watched as much of Livingston as i can since the break and honestly im still convinced theyll blow us away when we meet. Mackay and Brandon down their right are just direct, strong, and quick, and we'll just not to do anything against that. If we win itll be because their defence seems an absolute clownshoe unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJFCtheTeamForMe Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Still think folk are bit premature for calling for the sack etc. He's had one window with 50p and a packet of crisps to spend. Is it shite, yes? Thought we were a goner without question before they came in though. As I've said a couple of times I'm just more frustrated with the regression and change of way of playing when things were going well. Midweek though. No fucking thanks. 6 months ago I would have been there without question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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