Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[RandomGuy.]

Second game in a row Davidson has set us up and hindered our best players.

Playing Wotherspoon in the middle, then May on the left, against Livi took both out the game. Tonight he gives McCann and Wotherspoon weird hybrid roles that mean neither are able to influence the game much at all.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

14 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Take your ball playing centre halves and ram them so far up your arse.  Their job is to fucking defend.  For as long as I can remember in Scottish football, centre backs will come along that spray passes about from the back and everyone starts wanking themselves into a frenzy because they look cultured and play like continental centre halves.  Then folk realise they're actually average as f**k at defending.

3 centre backs on the park against a lower league team who had created very little and we can't even see out extra time without conceding.  It's the same every time we score in a game.  They're all decent centre backs, but we've got them trying to think they are there as playmakers.  They should be coming off proud they've got a clean sheet, not that they had a 95% pass completion rate.  Give me a Frazer Wright, Steven Anderson, Jim Weir type every time over what we're currently getting.

If we were creating lots of chances and scoring goals from their involvement in play then fair enough, but we don't.  Being able to pass is a bonus, not a prerequisite for a centre back at our level.  Time to go back to basics and get putting the hours in on the training park shaping our defence when we're defending, not just when we're trying to play out from the back.

 

And as for our finishing...

Let's be frank about it. 

Ours are not good enough to be ball playing defenders either. 

For me Kerr moving forward in that right channel more often than not is a hindrance. 

He's getting on my nerves when he wonders into the final third with it.

He done this 2-3 times tonight. Half runs at the defender when in possession and just stops, turns 60 degrees and rolled it wide to Rooney. Just give it to Rooney early and let him take a run at the man on the outside. Feeble. Pointless and just getting in the fucking way. 

[RandomGuy.]

Wonder how often Rowett and Davidson speak?

[PauloPerth]

^ thats uncanny 

[Kyle]

1 hour ago, PauloPerth said:

Take your ball playing centre halves and ram them so far up your arse.  Their job is to fucking defend.  For as long as I can remember in Scottish football, centre backs will come along that spray passes about from the back and everyone starts wanking themselves into a frenzy because they look cultured and play like continental centre halves.  Then folk realise they're actually average as f**k at defending.

3 centre backs on the park against a lower league team who had created very little and we can't even see out extra time without conceding.  It's the same every time we score in a game.  They're all decent centre backs, but we've got them trying to think they are there as playmakers.  They should be coming off proud they've got a clean sheet, not that they had a 95% pass completion rate.  Give me a Frazer Wright, Steven Anderson, Jim Weir type every time over what we're currently getting.

If we were creating lots of chances and scoring goals from their involvement in play then fair enough, but we don't.  Being able to pass is a bonus, not a prerequisite for a centre back at our level.  Time to go back to basics and get putting the hours in on the training park shaping our defence when we're defending, not just when we're trying to play out from the back.

 

And as for our finishing...

What a fucking post. Are you single?

53 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Wonder how often Rowett and Davidson speak?

Uncanny indeed. Give me murderball over this pish any day of the week.

[PauloPerth]

In the cold light of day, it feels a bit ungrateful after making it to a semi final.  So congrats to Davidson for doing so in his first season, great to be back in one for the first time in 4-5 years.

We actually played well in the first half of normal and extra time, but were a bit poor and disjointed in the second halves.  But lets be honest, the reason we are through is because Zander was capable of saving a couple of penalties, and Fon Williams let a couple squirm through him in a game we should have comfortably seen out.

We obviously struggle to score goals, which we're all aware of, but when you've worked so hard to get one and then give them away so cheaply every game you draw level or go ahead is criminal.  Think it was Radford who made the point at the weekend about how you can get away with being a low scoring team, or not being able to keep clean sheets, but not both at the same time.  

We also have to be clinical in killing teams off, May's miss looked shocking without the benefit of a replay.

Would like Davidson to prioritise working on our defence, lets go back to being hard to score against.

[Valentino Bolognese]

54 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

In the cold light of day, it feels a bit ungrateful after making it to a semi final.  So congrats to Davidson for doing so in his first season, great to be back in one for the first time in 4-5 years.

We actually played well in the first half of normal and extra time, but were a bit poor and disjointed in the second halves.  But lets be honest, the reason we are through is because Zander was capable of saving a couple of penalties, and Fon Williams let a couple squirm through him in a game we should have comfortably seen out.

We obviously struggle to score goals, which we're all aware of, but when you've worked so hard to get one and then give them away so cheaply every game you draw level or go ahead is criminal.  Think it was Radford who made the point at the weekend about how you can get away with being a low scoring team, or not being able to keep clean sheets, but not both at the same time.  

We also have to be clinical in killing teams off, May's miss looked shocking without the benefit of a replay.

Would like Davidson to prioritise working on our defence, lets go back to being hard to score against.

I know what you mean. Think the issue is that fans are seeing flashes of potential and some good football but it's been such a frustrating season. Probably inevitable though with a new manager. Thought for the first 20 minutes or so, just after we scored and first ET period we played pretty well, but again we're seeing that we're not making the opposition have to play well to beat us. 

The recent injuries have been a blessing and a curse. Players that weren't getting  start have been getting time in the legs and in some cases playing at least as well or better than some of the guys that CD had as settled starters. I know that's usually classed as a 'good problem to have' but I'm not so sure right now, I'd rather we were clearer on our best 11/12/13. never mind our best shape (5-3-2?). Melamed remains an enigma, I want to see the guy play for a bit. Got to wonder what CD sees in training. 

I was annoyed last night when someone mentioned in the match thread that there were 900 folk watching a stream on FB. Not to have a go when folk have lost their jobs etc, get that it's tough right now and facing the same situation myself, but that's chunk of lost revenue for the club and the League Cup is hardly a cash bonanza** so gates must be pretty important.  Saying that, how many of those would have been paying for a ticket?

The official stream was practically unwatchable so have to wonder how bad a hooky one would be. 

** ETA just read that this year's Betfred has a bigger winner's payout than the Scottish Cup (£300k). Surprising. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Valentino Bolognese

[PauloPerth]

Agree with all that. I’d happily watch a buck stream if it’s another club missing out, but not to cheat your own team.

A fair few folk on that banter page that stream games hardly go to matches or put anything into the club yet are the most opinionated on anything to do with Saints.

I do wonder if Guy Melamed is the attacking equivalent of Maddis Vihmann.  Seems bizarre not picking a player signed on a one year deal and still trying to get them upto fitness halfway through the season.

[Radford]

We were so one dimensional last night, even when playing well. The wide attacks are a fine approach if the quality of the final ball is good but it was dreadful last night. So what did we have up our sleeve instead? Absolutely nothing. 

I agree with what has been said previously about recruiting players that are more proficient in the one-on-one situations that our formation creates but we also need to be more flexible in terms of a game plan, even within the 5-2-3.

[RandomGuy.]

How much of our issues are down to players just not being good enough to play the way he wants?

Do you blame Davidson for trying to make us play down the wings when we've got a dearth of quality out there, and a lack of players who can attack crosses? Or do you blame the players who are missing from 6 yards and who can't do anything unpredictable in attack (Wotherspoon aside)? Is it just a case of the players adapting to a new style and them, and the manager, working out the kinks as we go?

Probably a mix of all three, I guess.

[RandomGuy.]

On 14/12/2020 at 13:18, Radford said:

Full in the knowledge that folk will tell me I'm being harsh, I don't like Clark's positioning at all for the winner on Saturday. He's not close enough to Robinson to make himself a significant obstacle and if he's closer to his line probably forces the goalscorer to take a touch, which gives both him and the defence an opportunity to block.

This boy seems to be an expert on GKs (he effectively created an xG model for goalkeepers), and he's criticising Chelseas keeper for being too far out his own goal in a similar situation...

Goes on to say if he'd been further back his chances of saving would've been higher.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

5 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Agree with all that. I’d happily watch a buck stream if it’s another club missing out, but not to cheat your own team.

A fair few folk on that banter page that stream games hardly go to matches or put anything into the club yet are the most opinionated on anything to do with Saints.

I do wonder if Guy Melamed is the attacking equivalent of Maddis Vihmann.  Seems bizarre not picking a player signed on a one year deal and still trying to get them upto fitness halfway through the season.

I agree with this - I didn’t realise they split the PPV money tbh. 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

5 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Agree with all that. I’d happily watch a buck stream if it’s another club missing out, but not to cheat your own team.

A fair few folk on that banter page that stream games hardly go to matches or put anything into the club yet are the most opinionated on anything to do with Saints.

I do wonder if Guy Melamed is the attacking equivalent of Maddis Vihmann.  Seems bizarre not picking a player signed on a one year deal and still trying to get them upto fitness halfway through the season.

If Guy Melamed isn't fit by now he's never going to be. So far a strange signing - despite our poor return in terms of goals she's still not getting a sniff. 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

Hope our attacking players are taking notes...

 

 

[Valentino Bolognese]

33 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

If Guy Melamed isn't fit by now he's never going to be. So far a strange signing - despite our poor return in terms of goals she's still not getting a sniff. 

The times he has made an appearance he's not set any fires but neither would you say he's looked particularly poor or unfit. Against Livi he did OK when he came on and had some good spells in the Hibs game.  Looks like he's being asked to play quite far up the park and in the games so far he's not had much chance to make an impact. 

He doesn't look great at winning headers though so again, not sure where in CD's 'crosses win games' philosophy he fits in. 

 

[Lang Toon Saintee]

I said some time ago that I had an uneasy feeling about Melemed..I don't know what's going on there but something is not right.When CD said that he wanted to bring a striker in and I'm sure he was not talking about a fourth choice striker who would hardly kick a ball in anger.. There is a great difference between playing all your football in the blistering heat of Israel and playing on heavy pitches in a cold Scottish winter..Could we see a mutually agreed termination in January ?

[akuram]

I know what you mean. Think the issue is that fans are seeing flashes of potential and some good football but it's been such a frustrating season. Probably inevitable though with a new manager. Thought for the first 20 minutes or so, just after we scored and first ET period we played pretty well, but again we're seeing that we're not making the opposition have to play well to beat us. 
The recent injuries have been a blessing and a curse. Players that weren't getting  start have been getting time in the legs and in some cases playing at least as well or better than some of the guys that CD had as settled starters. I know that's usually classed as a 'good problem to have' but I'm not so sure right now, I'd rather we were clearer on our best 11/12/13. never mind our best shape (5-3-2?). Melamed remains an enigma, I want to see the guy play for a bit. Got to wonder what CD sees in training. 
I was annoyed last night when someone mentioned in the match thread that there were 900 folk watching a stream on FB. Not to have a go when folk have lost their jobs etc, get that it's tough right now and facing the same situation myself, but that's chunk of lost revenue for the club and the League Cup is hardly a cash bonanza** so gates must be pretty important.  Saying that, how many of those would have been paying for a ticket?
The official stream was practically unwatchable so have to wonder how bad a hooky one would be. 
** ETA just read that this year's Betfred has a bigger winner's payout than the Scottish Cup (£300k). Surprising. 

Sorry to hear you had problems with the stream as last night for me it was perfect, one of the best so far. Commentary was also excellent and not too biased. Would have helped to have a Saints co-commenter.

[RandomGuy.]

McCann was definitely played as a wide man in a front three last night, FWIW.

Started watching the game back but can't be arsed.

[Valentino Bolognese]

11 minutes ago, akuram said:

Sorry to hear you had problems with the stream as last night for me it was perfect, one of the best so far. Commentary was also excellent and not too biased. Would have helped to have a Saints co-commenter.

It was very poor for me. Pre-match was OK but soon as it went live the resolution dropped dramatically, quite a few drop outs as well. Problems definitely not my end. 

Agree the commentary team weren't too biased but they had little idea who our players were. Most of the time they just seemed to be naming random Saints players that they'd heard of. 

[Homer Thompson]

It was very poor for me. Pre-match was OK but soon as it went live the resolution dropped dramatically, quite a few drop outs as well. Problems definitely not my end. 
Agree the commentary team weren't too biased but they had little idea who our players were. Most of the time they just seemed to be naming random Saints players that they'd heard of. 

If nobody else had a problem with the stream there's a good chance the problem was at your end.