Motherwell vs St.Johnstone 13/08/16

[MJC]

What makes it all the more worrying is that our defence is largely suspect at the best of times and McManus in particular has always been the type of defender who really needs a strong goalkeeper behind him, both to do what a goalkeeper is supposed to do, and to command the box. It is fairly evident that Samson is incapable of doing either.

[ropy]

I saw Brill at Dumbarton, did nothing to convince me he was the answer.

i know it was only one preseason match with most of the development side but it was nothing to enthuse over.

[welldaft]

1 minute ago, ropy said:

I saw Brill at Dumbarton, did nothing to convince me he was the answer.

i know it was only one preseason match with most of the development side but it was nothing to enthuse over.

Thanks for cheering us up Ropy. 

[MJC]

7 hours ago, ropy said:

I saw Brill at Dumbarton, did nothing to convince me he was the answer.

i know it was only one preseason match with most of the development side but it was nothing to enthuse over.

Could be a case of Francois Dubourdeau syndrome here. When Woods started 02/03 as first choice and made countless howlers, the better Dubourdeau became, simply because he was an alternative to Woods, albeit having to endure Woods in goal would have made any 2nd choice keeper look good. And then of course when 'Frankie' did get his chance he proved to be pretty hopeless as well. I can see the same situation developing here with Samson & Brill, though Samson most definitely needs dropped ASAP.

[well fan for life]

Could be a case of Francois Dubourdeau syndrome here. When Woods started 02/03 as first choice and made countless howlers, the better Dubourdeau became, simply because he was an alternative to Woods, albeit having to endure Woods in goal would have made any 2nd choice keeper look good. And then of course when 'Frankie' did get his chance he proved to be pretty hopeless as well. I can see the same situation developing here with Samson & Brill, though Samson most definitely needs dropped ASAP.

To be fair to Dubourdeau, he did have a ridiculous game against Rangers when we beat them 1-0.

Shite the rest of the time.

[capt_oats]

Given Brill hasn't played a competitive game for us yet I don't think you can really judge or make comparisons either way. I get what Ropy is saying though, I don't expect Brill to come in and compare with Ruddy, Randolph or even Ripley and anyone who is expecting that will probably be disappointed but I'd hope he might be able to raise the bar to at least competent.

If you are making comparisons though; both goalkeepers have played in this league before. On one hand you've got Killie fans who view Samson as a complete liability and seem amazed he's got a gig with us. On the other, ICT fans seemed fairly positive about Brill. So I'm not sure that the Dubourdeau comparison fits. It's not as if people haven't seen Brill play at this level before.

As I said yesterday the mistakes Samson has been making are consistent with those he's made at other clubs, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Similarly, had it been the case that Samson was expected to be undisputed #1 then I'd have thought we'd have seen a younger goalkeeper as backup, similar to what Thistle have done with Cerny and Scully. The fact McGhee hasn't and has brought in a 2nd keeper who could reasonably expect first team games suggests to me that Samson's being given the opportunity to show he warrants being first choice (and handling it as you may expect).

The question for me is how long McGhee gives Samson before Brill gets an opportunity. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up seeing him in goals for the Dundee game at Fir Park tbh.

[thisGRAEME]

DU DU DUBOURDEAU! DU DU DUBOURDEAU! DU DU DUBOURDEAU! DU DU DUBOURDEAU! DU DU DUBOURDEAU! 

[The Saintee]

I wasn't even too impressed by Ripley, certainly in the games against us anyway.

[thisGRAEME]

5 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

I wasn't even too impressed by Ripley, certainly in the games against us anyway.

Probably because he wasn't anything other than bang average. He improved massively during his time with us, but had an even stronger social media game, so was great, apparently.

[The Saintee]

8 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Probably because he wasn't anything other than bang average. He improved massively during his time with us, but had an even stronger social media game, so was great, apparently.

Until Saturday I did miss big Gunnar. He loved chucking one in against us. I'd expect Brill to get in before long as he's always looked decent.  Before his injury he did anyway.

[Gianfranco]

Dubourdeau is that French for Stevie Woods? Booooooo

[Judge Jules]

I see that people including Motherwell players are blaming the new footballs for St Johnstone's 2nd goal absolving Samson of any blame. Funny how no other goalkeeper in the league had problems with them. I've got a horrible feeling he ain't getting dropped anytime soon no matter how many he throws in. 

[capt_oats]

The thing with Ripley IMO was the extent to which he seemed to have improved, and it was a marked improvement, made made him look a "better" 'keeper. It's a perspective amplified further given his place in a lineage of Hollis, Neilsen, Twardzik and Long. He did have a v.strong social media game as well though tbf.

Also, occasional howler aside (Thistle & Celtic @ Fir Park being the obvious ones), he seemed capable of learning from his mistakes or at least improving aspects of his game, for example after he was done by Juanma dinking him in the 2-2 game he seemed to be a yard/half-yard quicker off his line in subsequent games and by and large was capable of making "big" saves that could be viewed as having won points or at least be viewed as key points in a game. The save at Kane's feet vs Saints in December while the game was still 1-0 and at the stop from McGinn at 1-0 down vs Aberdeen in March both stood out for me.

In the case of Samson though you're pretty much getting what everyone expected, he's making the same mistakes he's always made.

[Desp]

2 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

DU DU DUBOURDEAU! DU DU DUBOURDEAU! DU DU DUBOURDEAU! DU DU DUBOURDEAU! DU DU DUBOURDEAU! 

"We've got McFadden. and we've got Dubo

David Murray's shite at judo."

 

Classic.

[thisGRAEME]

1 minute ago, Desp said:

"We've got McFadden. and we've got Dubo

David Murray's shite at judo."

 

Classic.

"We've got Faddy, and we've got Hammell

Michael Mols' wife's a camel."

Halcyon days.

[Desp]

Halcyon days indeed.  We spent about 90% of that season being absolute dug shite, yet for some it goes down as one of their favourite seasons as a 'Well fan.  It certainly wasn't fun at the time.  

[MJC]

His save from Billy Dodds right at the death in that win over Rangers was superb, so far removed from him nutting the Killie player and giving away a last minute penalty a few weeks later.

As crazy as it sounds, I too look back on that season with fond memories, as awful as we were for so long during it. I think it was a combination of the club's very future being in jeopardy meaning that the support and the club were as close as I've ever known them to be, whilst on the park Terry Butcher had a raw and young side who you knew were capable of pulling stunning results out the back, especially with Faddy there ripping sides apart.

We beat Celtic, we beat Rangers, thumped Hearts 6-1 and had a memorable Scottish Cup run with some terrific away days and really should have beaten Rangers in the Semi Final after Faddy's stunner to out us ahead. And then there was Faddy's masterclass on the final day against Livingston when we won 6-2.

Yet on the flip side of all that, we went something like three months without a win between beating Celtic and the 6-1 Hearts game, didn't beat anyone in the bottom six until February when we beat Hibs, got hammered 5-1 at home v. Livingston and that awful day when we lost to Aberdeen at Fir Padk to confirm we'd finish bottom meaning we needed a vote to save us thanks to Falkirk's inability to sort their stadium out on time.

It was a crazy season, yet it'll live with me forever and I still treasure my The Untouchables strip from that year.

[Al B]

We were most;y rotten, but absolutely baws oot the whole time which made for some unbelievable #scenes. You went to games knowing that if you looked away for too long you risked missing something worth seeing.

Have to disagree with the Untouchables kit though (or the Faddy kit as I call it). It's one of my least favourites.