Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[DublinMagyar]

Wait, Clinton has fans on here?  

I like a bit of Parliament [emoji106]

[AUFC90]

It says that Scotland couldn't remain in the EU on Independence Day as claimed in the White Paper. Under the Treaty of the EU, if part of a Member State secedes from that Member State, it leaves the EU too. Post-Brexit, an independent Scotland could apply to join the EU using the normal application process. That's always been the case. 

Did East Germany comply with all EU regulations or did real politics trump the mumblings of powerless fannies like Rahoy ?

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, AUFC90 said:

Did East Germany comply with all EU regulations or did politics trump the mumbling of fannies like Rahoy

 

 

West Germany effectively absorbed the GDR following the Economic, Re-unification and Constitutional Treaties. There was no need for the GDR to comply with any EU regulations as it ceased to exist. That stupid question only confirms your ignorance.

[AUFC90]

West Germany effectively absorbed the GDR following the Economic, Re-unification and Constitutional Treaties. There was no need for the GDR to comply with any EU regulations as it ceased to exist. That stupid question only confirms your ignorance.

So no treaties were changed ? No rules were flaunted ? Bullshit.

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, AUFC90 said:

 

So no treaties were changed ? No rules were flaunted ? Bullshit.

 

Nope. If you believe that nonsense, provide the evidence.

No EU treaties were changed so it's you who is full of BS.

[AUFC90]

Nope. If you believe that nonsense, provide the evidence.

No EU treaties were changed so it's you who is full of BS.

So wait, an area of Europe that didn't meet all the entry criteria for joining the EU joined without any treaty changes ? No bother then and don't try and pretend that East Germany was somehow a different thing. It was a part of a non EU state and wanted to be part of an EU member state.

Scotland would get in no problem at all.

political – it must have stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law and human rights

economic – it must have a functioning market economy and be able to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the EU

legal – it must accept established EU law and practice – especially the major goals of political, economic and monetary union.

That's pretty much what the EU looks for, Scotland would get in no problem at all especially when you look at other, less significant and less prosperous nations that have gained entry.

To be honest, anyone that believes the mewlings of powerless wanks in the commission and actually thinks Scotland wouldn't be allowed in isn't worth debating. The member states would get round the table and sort it out double quick time. "Dear EU, we have been European citizens for the last 40 years and we just had a democratic vote to leave an EU member, agreed upon by said EU member but you're not letting us in ? Why ? "

You're a complete tit if you think anything other than Scotland would get in pronto.

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, AUFC90 said:

So wait, an area of Europe that didn't meet all the entry criteria for joining the EU joined without any treaty changes ? No bother then and don't try and pretend that East Germany wasn't a separate state, it clearly was.

Scotland would get in no problem at all.

political – it must have stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law and human rights
economic – it must have a functioning market economy and be able to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the EU
legal – it must accept established EU law and practice – especially the major goals of political, economic and monetary union.

That's pretty much what the EU looks for, Scotland would get in no problem at all especially when you look at other, less significant and less prosperous nations that have gained entry.

To be honest, anyone that believes the mewlings of powerless wanks in the commission and actually thinks Scotland wouldn't be allowed in isn't worth debating. The member states would get round the table and sort it out double quick time. "Dear EU, we have been European citizens for the last 40 years and we just had a democratic vote to leave an EU member, agreed upon by said EU member but you're not letting us in ? Why "
You're a complete tit if you think anything other than Scotland wouldn't get in pronto.

 

Thanks for confirming your ignorance yet again. The old West Germany absorbed the GDR and took on its Treaty Obligations. The Treaty of the EU (Lisbon Treaty)was signed in 2007. It set out new rules for joining and leaving the EU. Read the 35 chapter of the acquis, the requirements to join, before posting such garbage.

[AUFC90]

Thanks for confirming your ignorance yet again. The old West Germany absorbed the GDR and took on its Treaty Obligations. The Treaty of the EU (Lisbon Treaty)was signed in 2007. It set out new rules for joining and leaving the EU. Read the 35 chapter of the acquis, the requirements to join, before posting such garbage.

You're the ignorant one if you think Scotland would be refused entry to the EU. It's so ridiculous it's laughable.

[strichener]

9 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

 

You're the ignorant one if you think Scotland would be refused entry to the EU. It's so ridiculous it's laughable.

That may be the case but it is not analogous with the GDR being absorbed into West Germany.

[Bishop Briggs]

12 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

You're the ignorant one if you think Scotland would be refused entry to the EU. It's so ridiculous it's laughable.

 

I have not said that an independent Scotland would not be refused entry into the EU. All I have pointed out is that the claim in the White Paper, that Scotland could join on Independence Day (by March 2016), was utter nonsense.

An independent Scotland would have to go through the same application process as any other country. There would several key barriers to entry, e.g. no independent Scottish central bank, a basic requirement of the acquis. Scotland would have to pass a lot of legislation, e.g. financial regulation, to comply. Then there are issues relating to foreign and defence policy.

Post Brexit and before joining the EU, an independent Scotland would also have to negotiate its own exit deal with the UK. That would be more complex than Brexit. The EU would need to be satisfied that it did not conflict with the acquis.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Bishop Briggs

[AUFC90]

I have not said that an independent Scotland would not be refused entry into the EU. All I have pointed out is that the claim in the White Paper, that Scotland could join on Independence Day (by March 2016), was utter nonsense.
An independent Scotland would have to go through the same application process as any other country. There would several key barriers to entry, e.g. no independent Scottish central bank, a basic requirement of the acquis. Scotland would have to pass a lot of legislation, e.g. financial regulation, to comply. Then there are issues relating to foreign and defence policy.
Post Brexit and before joining the EU, an independent Scotland would also have to negotiate its own exit deal with the UK. That would be more complex than Brexit. The EU would need to be satisfied that it did not conflict with the acquis.

It would be made very easy as it's the common sense approach. Regardless of what the treaties say or anything else. And with regards to a central bank, it would either have been the BOE or a Scottish central bank backed by a share of BOE reserves that are rightfully ours. You crack on thinking the world would cave after a yes vote whilst Brexit will be cushy because ehm Farage and Johnson said so.

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, AUFC90 said:

It would be made very easy as it's the common sense approach. Regardless of what the treaties say or anything else. And with regards to a central bank, it would either have been the BOE or a Scottish central bank backed by a share of BOE reserves that are rightfully ours. You crack on thinking the world would cave after a yes vote whilst Brexit will be cushy because ehm Farage and Johnson said so.

 

The Treaties cannot be disregarded. The White Paper did not even consider the possibility of a Scottish central bank.

When the Coalition Government ruled out a currency union, Salmond adopted the neoliberal Adam Smith Institute's Sterlingisation proposal. The EU did not like it - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/02/indepdent-scotland-not-join-eu-without-central-bank

"The former EU commissioner for monetary union said it would not be possible for an independent Scotland to join the EU if it used the pound without a formal currency deal or its own central bank.

Olli Rehn, who stood down in July as the European commissioner for monetary union and the euro, wrote to Danny Alexander, the chief secretary of the Treasury, this week to say having a central bank was an essential requirement of EU membership.

Now an MEP, Rehn said in a letter published on Tuesday night that Alex Salmond's apparent plan to use the pound without the formal permission of London – a policy known as "sterlingisation" – would "simply not be possible".

So what's the SNP policy on a central bank and the currency for IndyRef2?

[Bishop Briggs]

11 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

 

It would be made very easy as it's the common sense approach. Regardless of what the treaties say or anything else. And with regards to a central bank, it would either have been the BOE or a Scottish central bank backed by a share of BOE reserves that are rightfully ours. You crack on thinking the world would cave after a yes vote whilst Brexit will be cushy because ehm Farage and Johnson said so.

 

I forgot to ask about 

a) What an independent Scotland's share of the UK Government's debt would be?

b) How much an Scotland independent Scotland should expect to contribute to the EU?

c) How much an independent Scotland would contribute to the UN, WTO, IMF, (dare I say it?) NATO and other international organisations.

You are also assuming that the EU would be happy to accept a new entrant with a fiscal deficit of around £15-15 billion per annum. How would that be financed on the international Treasury bond markets?

[AUFC90]

I forgot to ask about 
a) What an independent Scotland's share of the UK Government's debt would be?
b) How much an Scotland independent Scotland should expect to contribute to the EU?
c) How much an independent Scotland would contribute to the UN, WTO, IMF, (dare I say it?) NATO and other international organisations.
You are also assuming that the EU would be happy to accept a new entrant with a fiscal deficit of around £15-15 billion per annum. How would that be financed on the international Treasury bond markets?

I have no idea as does absolutely no one on this planet. What I do know though is that our share of the debt will be less than quoted, we ain't going to pay for QE debt and we ain't going to pay for debt that solely benefited England. If we take debt we also get assets, more than enough to provide security on a Scottish currency.

As for your last statement, you're just by saying that you're not saying that Scotland wouldn't be allowed in the EU now you are saying we wouldn't be allowed because of our deficit [emoji23][emoji23]
We'll just stop now, I'm 100% confident that if the time comes we'll all be proved correct and wet blankets such as yourself will be crying into their cornflakes.

[NotThePars]

Course the EU is going to rigidly enforce its own treaties and refuse a relatively prosperous Western European europhilic nation entry at a time when a member state has just voted to leave and its doing everything it can to keep all the basket cases of Europe from leaving. 

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, AUFC90 said:

I have no idea as does absolutely no one on this planet. What I do know though is that our share of the debt will be less than quoted, we ain't going to pay for QE debt and we ain't going to pay for debt that solely benefited England. If we take debt we also get assets, more than enough to provide security on a Scottish currency.

As for your last statement, you're just by saying that you're not saying that Scotland wouldn't be allowed in the EU now you are saying we wouldn't be allowed because of our deficit
We'll just stop now, I'm 100% confident that if the time comes we'll all be proved correct and wet blankets such as yourself will be crying into their cornflakes.

No. You're making that nonsense up. The EU would want to see a credible plan to reduce or eliminate the deficit. 

However, you have not even considered the more realistic interim solution - Scotland joining the Single Market like Norway. It would not be my choice - I oppose the12,700+ external tariffs and the Single Market's excessive regulations. But it is the only practical alternative to EU membership. Yet you, in your blind obedience to the SNP's EU orthodoxy, ignored it. 

[Bishop Briggs]

3 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Course the EU is going to rigidly enforce its own treaties and refuse a relatively prosperous Western European europhilic nation entry at a time when a member state has just voted to leave and its doing everything it can to keep all the basket cases of Europe from leaving. 

With a £14 billion annual budget deficit and no central bank or lender of last resort?

An independent Scotland would not have the benefit of the Barnett formula.block grant. It would need to have a credible plan to reduce or eliminate the deficit within an acceptable timescale. 

ETA - For independence to work, we will need an independent currency, a Scottish central bank, a supply-side tax policy and substantial public spending cuts. We can't afford the regulatory and financial burdens of the EU.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Bishop Briggs

[NotThePars]

And I'm sure the EU rigidly enforced every one of its treaties and made absolutely certain the Greeks and all the real basket cases of Europe were suitable potential members before they welcomed them. The EU's politically expedient and if they believe adding Scotland or whoever else will help shore up the European project then we'll get in. That's why it's pointless studying the minutiae of EU law. 

[Bishop Briggs]

10 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

And I'm sure the EU rigidly enforced every one of its treaties and made absolutely certain the Greeks and all the real basket cases of Europe were suitable potential members before they welcomed them. The EU's politically expedient and if they believe adding Scotland or whoever else will help shore up the European project then we'll get in. That's why it's pointless studying the minutiae of EU law. 

Lessons have been learned. 

Would you be happy for Scotland to shore up the European Project?

How much would that cost us, especially as the Italians are heading towards disaster?

[AUFC90]

No. You're making that nonsense up. The EU would want to see a credible plan to reduce or eliminate the deficit. 
However, you have not even considered the more realistic interim solution - Scotland joining the Single Market like Norway. It would not be my choice - I oppose the12,700+ external tariffs and the Single Market's excessive regulations. But it is the only practical alternative to EU membership. Yet you, in your blind obedience to the SNP's EU orthodoxy, ignored it. 

Blind obedience to the SNPs view on the EU ? [emoji23][emoji23] Nae bother.
I'm just debating your everything will be so bad for an independent Scotland schtick.