Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, AUFC90 said:

Blind obedience to the SNPs view on the EU ? Nae bother.
I'm just debating your everything will be so bad for an independent Scotland schtick.

A truly independent Scotland (outside the EU) will have a great future - provided it has its own free-floating currency, embraces free trade and balances its budget.

[AUFC90]

A truly independent Scotland (outside the EU) will have a great future - provided it has its own free-floating currency, embraces free trade and balances its budget.

That argument is for another day after Independence. If you truly believed that you'd campaign for independence then campaign against the EU. As it is I'm not buyinh your shite.

[Bishop Briggs]

28 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

That argument is for another day after Independence. If you truly believed that you'd campaign for independence then campaign against the EU. As it is I'm not buyinh your shite.

No it's not. The SNP is saying that Brexit should trigger IndeyRef2. I will campaign for Scotland's independence provided that White Paper2 rules out EU membership.

Real independence is incompatible with our laws being decided by unelected EUcrats in Brussels, MEPs from 27 countries or the European Courts. I suspect that the SNP wants full EU membership as insurance in case it needs a bailout like Ireland.

[AUFC90]

No it's not. The SNP is saying that Brexit should trigger IndeyRef2. I will campaign for Scotland's independence provided that White Paper2 rules out EU membership.

Real independence is incompatible with our laws being decided by unelected EUcrats in Brussels, MEPs from 27 countries or the European Courts. I suspect that the SNP wants full EU membership as insurance in case it needs a bailout like Ireland.

Ireland got a bailout because it would have affected the UK as well. The UK will still bail Ireland out if it happens again. You'll never campaign for Indy, drop the act.

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, AUFC90 said:

Ireland got a bailout because it would have affected the UK as well. The UK will still bail Ireland out if it happens again. You'll never campaign for Indy, drop the act.

I suspect that Ireland got a bailout because the Osborne family has huge financial interests in the Republic.

You have failed to provide any evidence to back your assertions or challenge any of the legal points that I made.

You're full of shite.

[AUFC90]

I suspect that Ireland got a bailout because the Osborne family has huge financial interests in the Republic.
You have failed to provide any evidence to back your assertions or challenge any of the legal points that I made.
You're full of shite.

You're legal points are merely assertions as well. A part of an EU member state has never succeeded, you're guessing just like everyone else. I'll expect ,once we inevitability get access to the single market that you dislike so much, that you'll immediately start campaigning for an independent Scotland outside the EU and the single market..... Or maybe not. Goodnight.

[Bishop Briggs]

3 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

 

You're legal points are merely assertions as well. A part of an EU member state has never succeeded, you're guessing just like everyone else. I'll expect ,once we inevitability get access to the single market that you dislike so much, that you'll immediately start campaigning for an independent Scotland outside the EU and the single market..... Or maybe not. Goodnight.

 

Greenland left the EU.

Access to the Single Market is not the same as membership of the EEA customs union. Around 200 countries have access to the single market, i.e. trade (albeit subject to tariffs under WTO rules) with it already.

I will campaign campaign for an independent Scotland that trades freely with, but is not a member (very different) of the EU or Single Market. I want an independent Scotland to benefit from free trade agreements with EEA (like Canada) and other countries such as the US, China, India, Australia and New Zealand.

Membership of the EU (and therefore the Single Market) means that Scottish consumers pay more than they need to due to the 12,700 external tariffs of the EEA. Sturgeon must clarify whether she wants just access to (i.e. free trade with) the Single Market or full membership (compliance with EU laws, regulations and tariffs).

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I agree with you on Russia and merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the Obama/Clinton fanboys on here.
Nobody on the left links the formation of "Black Lives Matter" to the failures of Obama. America's first black President failed black Americans.

Clinton fanboys?

I take that is Bill not Hillary?

Those who said they preferred her to Trump did so on the basis that she was the lesser of two evils.

I'm hard pushed to think of anyone who would be described as a Clinton fanboy.

As for Obama - I think it's been discussed to the nth degree how underwhelming his presidency has been - yes there have been successes but I think people on the whole have been disappointed by him.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

And I'm sure the EU rigidly enforced every one of its treaties and made absolutely certain the Greeks and all the real basket cases of Europe were suitable potential members before they welcomed them. The EU's politically expedient and if they believe adding Scotland or whoever else will help shore up the European project then we'll get in. That's why it's pointless studying the minutiae of EU law. 

I think that is the crux of the issue - they will do whatever is politically expedient.

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Clinton fanboys?

I take that is Bill not Hillary?

Those who said they preferred her to Trump did so on the basis that she was the lesser of two evils.

I'm hard pushed to think of anyone who would be described as a Clinton fanboy.

As for Obama - I think it's been discussed to the nth degree how underwhelming his presidency has been - yes there have been successes but I think people on the whole have been disappointed by him.

The Bishop is embracing the whole #posttruth philosophy.

 

[Bishop Briggs]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Clinton fanboys?

I take that is Bill not Hillary?

Those who said they preferred her to Trump did so on the basis that she was the lesser of two evils.

I'm hard pushed to think of anyone who would be described as a Clinton fanboy.

As for Obama - I think it's been discussed to the nth degree how underwhelming his presidency has been - yes there have been successes but I think people on the whole have been disappointed by him.

I don't disagree with you. I recall a few posters saying how much they liked Hillary.

Personally, and with several reservations, I supported the Libertarian Party's Gary Johnson. He was not perfect but he and his running mate (Bill Wield) had good economic and social records as Republican Governors.

[Bishop Briggs]

4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The Bishop is embracing the whole #posttruth philosophy.

 

That's a smear pathetic, even for a Blairite whore like you! 

I supported the Libertarian Party's Gary Johnson for President.

[NotThePars]

I can't think of a single poster apart from jmo that professed to like Hillary. And calling GD a "Blairite whore". 

[jakedee]

I cannot understand the argument that an iScotland will have an £x billion debt,but no reference whatsoever is given to the UK's assets which will be divvied up.

[ayrmad]

3 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said:

I have not said that an independent Scotland would not be refused entry into the EU. All I have pointed out is that the claim in the White Paper, that Scotland could join on Independence Day (by March 2016), was utter nonsense.

An independent Scotland would have to go through the same application process as any other country. There would several key barriers to entry, e.g. no independent Scottish central bank, a basic requirement of the acquis. Scotland would have to pass a lot of legislation, e.g. financial regulation, to comply. Then there are issues relating to foreign and defence policy.

Post Brexit and before joining the EU, an independent Scotland would also have to negotiate its own exit deal with the UK. That would be more complex than Brexit. The EU would need to be satisfied that it did not conflict with the acquis.

Were we not told after the referendum that Scotland would have (for want of a better phrase) been parked in a holding pen while it was all sorted out rather than kicked out with the need to rejoin.

[John Lambies Doos]

Were we not told after the referendum that Scotland would have (for want of a better phrase) been parked in a holding pen while it was all sorted out rather than kicked out with the need to rejoin.

Let's call a spade a spade. After and before both referendums we were told a crock of shite.. nobody knows. What I know is that if we were an independent country we would have far more control to make our own decisions

[Granny Danger]

10 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said:

That's a smear pathetic, even for a Blairite whore like you! 

I supported the Libertarian Party's Gary Johnson for President.

My #posttruth comment was based on your claim of Clinton 'fanboys' and supporters of Obama on this forum.  As DTED said they don't really exist.  If you think they do maybe you can point to some of these posts.

As for the 'Blairite whore' bit I don't get it but I'm not really needing an explanation.

[EvilScotsman]

12 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said:

A truly independent Scotland (outside the EU) will have a great future - provided it has its own free-floating currency, embraces free trade and balances its budget.

What do you think would be the consequences of iScotland (or the UK for that matter) balancing its budget?

In other words, why would this be a good thing?

[DI Bruce Robertson]

There is a fundamental difference in the rhetoric coming from the EU during Indy campaign & what would be reality now.
This difference is that in 2014, commissioners would not want to upset a member state (UK) and therefore, in my opinion picked out legislation and treaties that looked favourable to the status quo and rUK's interests. That is no longer the case and I think Scotland (post Indy) would be looked upon very favourably as quickly becoming a member state.

[Baxter Parp]

13 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said:

A truly independent Scotland (outside the EU) will have a great future - provided it has its own free-floating currency, embraces free trade and balances its budget.

Why?