Antlion Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, RedRob72 said: Subversive; challenging or attempting to subvert an established form of government or institutional power? It doesn’t necessarily attract a critical or insulting label/definition if that’s what you mean? And so as a UK nationalist, you’re “subversive” for supporting a state that is seeking to challenge an established form of government and institutional power: the EU. Surely it’s sunk in that unionism means Brexit by now. Edited February 12, 2018 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 And so as a UK nationalist, you’re “subversive” for supporting a state that is seeking to challenge an established form of government and institutional power: the EU. Surely it’s sunk in that unionism means Brexit by now. Think we covered that one a couple of pages back up the thread. Supportive of the Union both in the UK & Europe. Yes it’s a difficult position to take up given how things are unfolding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Think we covered that one a couple of pages back up the thread. Supportive of the Union both in the UK & Europe. Yes it’s a difficult position to take up given how things are unfolding. Ah, so it hasn’t sunk in. That’s not an option (difficult or otherwise). There is no way of supporting both unions. Your party has made very clear that Brexit is happening no matter what, because the voters of England and Wales have demanded it. Unionism means Brexit. If you espouse the first, you support the second. Thus, I’m afraid, you’ve thrown in your lot with the “subversives”. Presumably supporting challenging a system of governmental institution (or subversion, as you term it), is a price worth paying to deny Scotland sovereign statehood. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Ah, so it hasn’t sunk in. That’s not an option (difficult or otherwise). There is no way of supporting both unions. Your party has made very clear that Brexit is happening no matter what, because the voters of England and Wales have demanded it.Unionism means Brexit. If you espouse the first, you support the second. Thus, I’m afraid, you’ve thrown in your lot with the “subversives”. Presumably supporting challenging a system of governmental institution (or subversion, as you term it), is a price worth paying to deny Scotland sovereign statehood. Neatly boxed, and I’m sure that makes sense to you, but it seems as though that argument will continue to go round in circles. Millions of us voted to remain within the United Kingdom and in the European Union irrespective of party political persuasion. That 52% Voted to leave the EU across the UK,would force the hand of the government whoever was in power. Perhaps they should have just ignored the majority.In hindsight it might have been useful to have our own vote on the EU, the same being offered to NI, Eng & Wales, unfortunately it wasn’t an option at the time. That the UK voted to leave the EU was a huge surprise for most observers and commentators not least a shock for the general public too, on both sides of the divide. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Venom Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 That 52% Voted to leave the EU across the UK,would force the hand of the government whoever was in power. Perhaps they should have just ignored the majority.In hindsight it might have been useful to have our own vote on the EU, the same being offered to NI, Eng & Wales, unfortunately it wasn’t an option at the time. Obviously we are where we are because the Tories wanted the ref and delivered it on the back of a manifesto pledge - but at the time of setting the questions, was a differentiated vote across the "regions" even a thing that could have been, or was, lobbied for? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, RedRob72 said: Neatly boxed, and I’m sure that makes sense to you, but it seems as though that argument will continue to go round in circles. Millions of us voted to remain within the United Kingdom and in the European Union irrespective of party political persuasion. That 52% Voted to leave the EU across the UK,would force the hand of the government whoever was in power. Perhaps they should have just ignored the majority. In hindsight it might have been useful to have our own vote on the EU, the same being offered to NI, Eng & Wales, unfortunately it wasn’t an option at the time. That the UK voted to leave the EU was a huge surprise for most observers and commentators not least a shock for the general public too, on both sides of the divide. And now that the vote is a done deal, and the UK is leaving the EU despite how the nation of Scotland (or region, if you prefer) voted. Therefore to continue supporting incorporating union on these island is to support Brexit. Brexit is the unalterable direction of the UK, as we’re constantly reminded by all the UK nationalist parties. You might not have wanted it, but now it’s UK policy, unionism means Brexit. You can’t live in the past to try and avoid that fact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said: Obviously we are where we are because the Tories wanted the ref and delivered it on the back of a manifesto pledge - but at the time of setting the questions, was a differentiated vote across the "regions" even a thing that could have been, or was, lobbied for? Rob’s party rejected even the possibility of a double majority, presumably because it would give Scotland too much of a say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 Obviously we are where we are because the Tories wanted the ref and delivered it on the back of a manifesto pledge - but at the time of setting the questions, was a differentiated vote across the "regions" even a thing that could have been, or was, lobbied for? Ironically Nicola offered Cameron a back up in the 'family of equal nations' gig; ie needed all 4 countries to vote leave. Cameron, who invented the jackanory equal nations gig, ignored her and lost Europe. What a p***k 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Robs so craven it's comical 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 hours ago, RedRob72 said: Neatly boxed, and I’m sure that makes sense to you, but it seems as though that argument will continue to go round in circles. Millions of us voted to remain within the United Kingdom and in the European Union irrespective of party political persuasion. That 52% Voted to leave the EU across the UK,would force the hand of the government whoever was in power. Perhaps they should have just ignored the majority. In hindsight it might have been useful to have our own vote on the EU, the same being offered to NI, Eng & Wales, unfortunately it wasn’t an option at the time. That the UK voted to leave the EU was a huge surprise for most observers and commentators not least a shock for the general public too, on both sides of the divide. The cognitive dissonance on display here is alarming. I voted to have ice cream and a piping hot cup of tea in the same mug and i'll do so again, no surrender to thermodynamics, WATP etc. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Venom Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 The cognitive dissonance on display here is alarming. I voted to have ice cream and a piping hot cup of tea in the same mug and i'll do so again, no surrender to thermodynamics, WATP etc. Denied entropy to the single market and CU 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Peppino Impastato said: Robs so craven it's comical Rob Craven and Glen Minter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It's outstanding that Rob Craven sounds like a perfectly normal name. Think we should just stick with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, Randy Giles said: It's outstanding that Rob Craven sounds like a perfectly normal name. Think we should just stick with that. "And now over to Rob Craven for bullshit Newsround (for ages 12 under)" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossbill Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, williemillersmoustache said: "And now over to Rob Craven for bullshit Newsround (for ages 60 over)" ftfy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 The cognitive dissonance on display here is alarming. I voted to have ice cream and a piping hot cup of tea in the same mug and i'll do so again, no surrender to thermodynamics, WATP etc. I can’t disagree with that, I said a few pages up, that between a rock and a hard place is indeed an uncomfortable spot to roll out the picnic rug and basket at present (in relation to British Unionism and European Brexit).I’m neither ignoring or turning a blind eye to the situation, how that labels me a coward (and hundreds of thousands of other Scots), Im really unsure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Robs so craven it's comical It isn’t me that plans to do a runner if things don’t go my way Pep. You seem to have your escape route already mapped out. This is something you claim to ‘hold dear’, apparently not. What utter shite!! And you have the front to mouth insults such as craven, when you yourself exemplify the definition. Jeez.[emoji849] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 We’ve already established that Peppino is literally going to flee the country and live in exile if another democratic vote doesn’t go his way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: I can’t disagree with that, I said a few pages up, that between a rock and a hard place is indeed an uncomfortable spot to roll out the picnic rug and basket at present (in relation to British Unionism and European Brexit). I’m neither ignoring or turning a blind eye to the situation, how that labels me a coward (and hundreds of thousands of other Scots), Im really unsure. It labels you a fantasist. You’re professing to espouse a nonexistent position, whilst supporting a party that volubly denies that position. In your continued and unalloyed support of UK unionism, you’ve turned your back on European unionism. The two are mutually exclusive positions. In the wake of the EU referendum, you can only support one or the other, because the two are pulling in diametrically opposed directions. Once again, Rob: unionism means Brexit. Has that sunk in yet? ETA: where did willie label you a “coward”? Edited February 12, 2018 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: It isn’t me that plans to do a runner if things don’t go my way Pep. You seem to have your escape route already mapped out. This is something you claim to ‘hold dear’, apparently not. What utter shite!! And you have the front to mouth insults such as craven, when you yourself exemplify the definition. Jeez. I think you and NTP really need to look up the definition of the word craven. Saying things like long may they reign over us, as you did about the royal family, and being delighted for Scotland's democratic wishes to be completely ignored, as you always are, is also craven. My words are not. Subservience to unelected billionaires is something you celebrate, and moves to defy the democratic will of the country you live in you support. That's craven Wes. You're craven. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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