Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[dorlomin]

Quote

Staying in EU would not be an option if Labour were to hold second Brexit referendum, McDonnell says

Last night, at the marathon compositing meeting where delegates met to hammer out the terms of the motion on Brexit and a second referendum to be debated tomorrow, there was a moment when it looked as though those demanding a “people’s vote” had lost. As the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg reported, the text was going to talk about a vote “on the terms of Brexit” - ie on deal or no deal, not leave or remain.

So much for Corbyn the remainer. Nearly lasted a whole 24 hours.

So predictable. 

[btb]

22 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

2So much for Corbyn the remainer. Nearly lasted a whole 4 hours.

So predictable. 

Maylike level of incompetence! 

[Detournement]

24 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

So much for Corbyn the remainer. Nearly lasted a whole 24 hours.

So predictable. 

Labour leadership not willing to adopt contentious policy that would undermine their entire social program. Crazy.....

[harry94]

40 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

So much for Corbyn the remainer. Nearly lasted a whole 24 hours.

So predictable. 

I could forgive it if EEA is on the table at least.

I get it, they are shitting it because if they do go back on an EU withdrawal, they are likely fucked really badly when the next general election comes around. The problem is that the demographic who supports leave are the ones who generally come out and vote and this is an issue that has dogged British politics for decades and isn't going away soon.

Ideally, from a Scottish Independence prospective, we want EEA + Customs Union or something very similar so a next referendum doesn't have to deal with issues arising from an initial hard border and have to again have too much reliance on rUK. EEA is the best of the worst batch of options and will still have a negative impact when it turns out we have to accept stuff that the UK was previously in a position to veto and we will see some businesses depart over time.

[LongTimeLurker]

27 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Labour leadership not willing to adopt contentious policy that would undermine their entire social program. Crazy.....

If anything is going to undermine their social programme it's a hard Brexit, but politicians are more concerned about winning power in the next election than anything else.

[Granny Danger]

Labour saying their preference is for a GE to deal with Brexit.

Fine, what is Labour’s policy on Brexit in the event of an election being called?  At the moment it is as clear as mud.

 

[Detournement]

When they get into government they will open negotiations with Brussels on a better deal.

 

[dorlomin]

21 minutes ago, Detournement said:

When they get into government they will open negotiations with Brussels on a better deal.

In the couple of weeks may be a month or two before Brexit happens they will suddenly be able to take over a complex negotiation with 27 country trading block and come up with a deal that does not annoy most of the country.

 

Pish. 

[welshbairn]

23 minutes ago, Detournement said:

When they get into government they will open negotiations with Brussels on a better deal.

 

Corbyn has repeatedly said that no freedom of movement and no rule taking from Brussels are non negotiable red lines. So what does he have to offer to get a better deal?

[Ira Gaines]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Labour saying their preference is for a GE to deal with Brexit.

Fine, what is Labour’s policy on Brexit in the event of an election being called?  At the moment it is as clear as mud.

 

With Corbyn as leader, they'll obviously be on the side of leaving. This would be consistent with everything he's ever done.

[btb]

39 minutes ago, Detournement said:

When they get into government they will open negotiations with Brussels on a better deal.

 

This is not meant to be a personal criticism but there is no better deal.

[Detournement]

35 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

In the couple of weeks may be a month or two before Brexit happens they will suddenly be able to take over a complex negotiation with 27 country trading block and come up with a deal that does not annoy most of the country.

 

Pish. 

There won't be a General Election before this is settled anyway so it's all moot. Corbyn and his team just need to make sure they don't get locked into policy positions that undermine their core program.

If there is a GE then A50 would have to be extended as Parliament would be dissolved.

[Granny Danger]

Despite all the scare stories about Corbyn/Labour I reckon they could beat the Tories at a GE if they took a 'sensible' approach to Brexit.  Maybe not a majority government but definitely more seats than the Tories.

Of course they should not only be taking a 'sensible' approach for electoral purposes, thety should be doing so to stop the economy of the country going over a cliff.

F*ck knows what future generations will make of this omnishambles.

 

[Detournement]

19 minutes ago, btb said:

This is not meant to be a personal criticism but there is no better deal.

I agree.

The EU have chosen not to be flexible and have turned the four freedoms into a shibboleth.

[dorlomin]

10 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

if they took a 'sensible' approach to Brexit. 

They are life long hard brexit supporters. It was an article of faith of the Bennites, Foot was the same. 

[Bairnardo]

I am a bit to and fro about whether or not this puts the Labour Party into Lib Dem levels of hoping they die a rapid death and are not even a memory in 10 years.

On the one hand, Corbyn doesnt believe in the EU and with him in govt, the workers of the UK would likely be treated fairly. Part of me thinks he does have to approach this in the assumption that Labour can take the reins of a post EU Britain and be able to effect the policies he believes in.

On the other hand, sitting back and allowing the Tories to preside over this with the very real possibility that if they win the next GE post Brexit, workers right in the UK, trade unions and generally the conditions for Joe Blow will be eroded so badly as to set us back decades.

For me, Corbyn and Labour should be tryong to thwart Brexit on the basis that the damage the Tories will do here will be far reaching and severe before Labour ever even get a sniff of a chance to try to fix it.

[btb]

4 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

They are life long hard brexit supporters. It was an article of faith of the Bennites, Foot was the same. 

They probably formed their opinions during our first EU (Common Market) referendum in 1975 when it was regarded by the left, with justification, as a pro-business organization.

[zidane's child]

A GE will not be called as the Tories will fear:

a) They'll lose the whole thing and they'll be opposition

b) Labour adds to its 260 seats and further decreases the Tory seat count

Any talk of a GE is just hopeful from Labour sadly.

Edited September 24, 2018 by zidane's child

[Detournement]

I agree that they will limp on for as long as they can.

I actually expect a spending splurge once Brexit is done and May is shuffled off stage to try and win back some working age voters.

[Antlion]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Labour saying their preference is for a GE to deal with Brexit.

Fine, what is Labour’s policy on Brexit in the event of an election being called?  At the moment it is as clear as mud.

 

From what I can see, Labour Brexit policy is to do exactly what the Tories are doing, but to wrap it in less stupid, imperialistic language.