Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Brother Blades said:

It’s actually gutting to have to say this.
The majority of sensible people in the UK are now outnumbered by the Britain First / UKIP / Rees- Mogg types.
I’ve got very heavy doubts that a 2nd Referendum would be different in result.
Anybody contributing to this particular part of the forum, at least (with a few exceptions) keeps up with the latest twists & turns of this fiasco. The majority of the general public had made their minds up in 2016 & I doubt many will shift.
Is there really a massive movement (or even enough) towards Remain that a STAY option would win a people’s vote?

Yes, I've posted as much earlier and it's pretty sad.

Ultimately I see the role of Government as to lead the country in the best manner possible through Economic prosperity, national security,  infrastructure maintenance and improvement whether that be travel related such as road and rail or connectivity in the modern world and possibly most importantly access to a functioning health service and a safety net of welfare if and when needed.

Is Brexit likely to improve any of the above ?

I think not and even more worryingly those who are in power actually agree, now I'm sorry but some things are just too important to allow Dave down the chip shop or Rab the tattoo artist to decide on a whim that they don't like the EU and want out.

In a nutshell we need a strong Government and a strong leadership who understand that the country and it's future must come before ANYTHING and as such do what is best for this country and it's future generations and not what is best for their own political careers or to save face publicly etc.

Unfortunately, it appears we're screwed.........

 

[Romeo]

12 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Corbyn snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in spectacular fashion. He’s not even hibsed it, its so much more.

Hearts'd it?

We should have another vote for the LOL's and the heads gone. I think a good few people will have shifted position. If a load of people who voted for to leave don't relaise that they were lied to in spectacular fashion then we really are fucked.

[zidane's child]

29 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Corbyn doing exceptionally well so far.

sarcasm GD?

[Dons_1988]

I wonder if David Cameron realises quite what a monumental mess he has caused here.

[zidane's child]

11 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I wonder if David Cameron realises quite what a monumental mess he has caused here.

He won't care sadly. He's now well and truly out of it.

[ayrmad]

I wonder if David Cameron realises quite what a monumental mess he has caused here.

Does he care, being an absolute c**t hasn't did any harm to Blair's bank account, Dodgy Dave's will be suitably healthy as well.

[NotThePars]

So Labour have access to the speech before, decided to use that to sound out a possible VoNC and the ERG and DUP predictably fall in line behind Theresa May? Anyone in the opposition that’s demanding a vote of no confidence atm is purely at it.

[Granny Danger]

34 minutes ago, zidane's child said:

sarcasm GD?

I watched his immediate reply after May spoke then I had to go out.

I thought his statement was spot on.

I would be interested to hear what he said that people are critical of.  

 

[renton]

8 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

So Labour have access to the speech before, decided to use that to sound out a possible VoNC and the ERG and DUP predictably fall in line behind Theresa May? Anyone in the opposition that’s demanding a vote of no confidence atm is purely at it.

Therein lies the issue. All the ERG (and the DUP) have to do is hang on in there, so long as they can beat May's deal, they can secure their No Deal Brexit by default. It's clock watching for them at the moment. On the other side of the fence,  it's May watching the clock on Labour. Either support May's deal, or watch a No Deal Brexit become reality. In that game of chicken, how would you rate the PLP's discipline behind Corbyn?

So, May's not in a great place but arguably Corbyn - if he has a unique vision of Brexit he wants - is in a worse one. He mgiht not have the numbers for a No Confidence vote, but at the same time sitting on his hands isn't going to achieve his stated aim of a Labour, jobs minded Brexit either.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, SweeperDee said:

 

I don’t know what planet you’re on, but his response was fucking shite.

 

What did he say that you disagreed with?

 

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

A lot of people voted to end freedom of movement.

Whyever would they do that?

[Detournement]

It's trendy to blame The Russians these days rather than the UK billionaire press.

A perfectly elastic labour supply provided by a reserve army based in lower cost countries played an essential part in the wage suppression and erosion of terms we have seen in the last 15 years. That's a legitimate reason to want to end Freedom of Movement.

 

[welshbairn]

25 minutes ago, Detournement said:

It's trendy to blame The Russians these days rather than the UK billionaire press.

A perfectly elastic labour supply provided by a reserve army based in lower cost countries played an essential part in the wage suppression and erosion of terms we have seen in the last 15 years. That's a legitimate reason to want to end Freedom of Movement.

 

The Government seem to be planning to save low paid jobs for the Brits and retain free movement for medium to well paid jobs.

[welshbairn]

Corbyn's tabled a VONC in May, not the Government, so it means nothing. It will be interesting to see how the ERG lot vote if it goes ahead.

[Paco]

Corbyn's tabled a VONC in May, not the Government, so it means nothing. It will be interesting to see how the ERG lot vote if it goes ahead.

Possibly a test run, or he may well know he’ll lose so he’s making the point to the howls of the SNP et all that he won’t win a No Confidence vote in the government, so to stop bleating about it.

Rees-Mogg has already fallen in line today. No doubt at all the rest of the ERG will follow. They’ve little to gain from the government falling just now.

[Granny Danger]

5 minutes ago, Paco said:

 

Possibly a test run, or he may well know he’ll lose so he’s making the point to the howls of the SNP et all that he won’t win a No Confidence vote in the government, so to stop bleating about it.

Rees-Mogg has already fallen in line today. No doubt at all the rest of the ERG will follow. They’ve little to gain from the government falling just now.

 

Mogg and co. think that the longer this goes on the more chance they have of No Deal so he’s happy to fall into line.

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

In addition to some words the choices were

Remain a member of the European Union
Leave the European Union

Now to me that means you lose the right to freedom of movement, customs union, ecj, etc.

You need to tell that to Single Market members who are not members of the EU.

Norway.

Iceland.

Switzerland.

The ignorance of a lot Brexiters never ceases to amaze me.

[welshbairn]

Just now, Paco said:

 

Possibly a test run, or he may well know he’ll lose so he’s making the point to the howls of the SNP et all that he won’t win a No Confidence vote in the government, so to stop bleating about it.

Rees-Mogg has already fallen in line today. No doubt at all the rest of the ERG will follow. They’ve little to gain from the government falling just now.

 

It's gesture politics, the Government can just choose not to give time for it. If they did the ERG could vote with Labour as a gesture too, knowing it would have no effect but embarrassing May. I'm beginning to think Corbyn thinks the best chance of gaining power is in the chaos after a hard brexit, he's made no attempt to offer an alternative to Parliament, far less one that could get a majority behind it. ERG and the DUP would never vote against the Government in a VOC that could cause a GE, stalling till March 29th will suit them fine. I suppose it's a  possibility  that the DUP might blink and support May's deal given the turmoil a hard brexit would cause back home, but the ERG would only back it if Labour offered a realistic alternative, which they refuse to do.

[Adamski]

Corbyn going for the VONC in order to get the attempt at forcing a general election out the way?

It’ll fail, but then Labour can say ‘we tried’ and move for a 2nd referendum.

Perhaps?

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Adamski said:

Corbyn going for the VONC in order to get the attempt at forcing a general election out the way?

It’ll fail, but then Labour can say ‘we tried’ and move for a 2nd referendum.

Perhaps?

If he wanted to try that it would have been in the Government rather than May. He won't go for a Government one unless he's sure he can win, as the Party would pretty well force him to go for a 2nd ref which is the last thing he wants.