Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 minutes ago, ArabianKnight said:

Aye. No sitting on their arses here. If they do anything other than go for the jugular with this I'm done with voting SNP. 

Could you not just help us get a Labour Government at Westminster first? Shouldn't take long for the right-wing to collapse, then we can move on - as friends and neighbours, because after all, we're all Jock Tamson's bairns, eh? Nicola and Jeremy signing the Accord in a railway carriage near Gretna would be a great day for both countries.

[madwullie]

1 minute ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Could you not just help us get a Labour Government at Westminster first? Shouldn't take long for the right-wing to collapse, then we can move on - as friends and neighbours, because after all, we're all Jock Tamson's bairns, eh? Nicola and Jeremy signing the Accord in a railway carriage near Gretna would be a great day for both countries.

f**k up

[Detournement]

The SNP know that a big push for independence means they get hammered by tactical voting.

 

[renton]

6 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The SNP know that a big push for independence means they get hammered by tactical voting.

 

Tactical voting would inevitably be diluted by the Remain/Leave faultlines in the Unionist parties now.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, renton said:

Tactical voting would inevitably be diluted by the Remain/Leave faultlines in the Unionist parties now.

The EU barely registers compared to independence up here. Unionist parties wouldn't be any more diluted than the SNP would be by their 30% of Leave voters.

 

 

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Agree, there's a lot of overlap in our posting. You're right about the Bliar years - this was when, rather than me leaving Labour, Labour left me and many like me*. The arrogance of taking the Scots vote for granted was, as you rightly say, pounced upon by the SNP. I would caution, though, that a post-independence SNP might well be a totally different animal.

I'm from Kilmarnock myself (surprise!) and sadly, each time I return for a visit, the decay seems to have advanced further. The incredible speed with which Walker's plant just disappeared after closure stopped me in my tracks. I'd been prepared for the usual forlorn empty factory, but that masive gap next to Hill St was surreal. My sister still lives in Killie, but as a recent retiree she's not affected by the employment situation, and has a nice wee house in a recent development. In fairness, though, many places across the country have suffered from the death of manufacturing. York - where I lived for fifteen years before going rural - has a look of a prosperous wee city, but in litle more than a decade in the 80s and 90s lost Redfearn Glass, British Sugar, BREL, Armstrong Engineering, Terry's, Cravens and many city-centre shops. Get away from the city centre tourist traps to Acomb, Clifton and Tang Hall, and the same hopeless future stretches out in front of the next generation.

Yes, I've often wondered if the Federal system would be the best way forward so that ALL areas could at least have a chance.

Using Irvine as an example, the infrastructure is all in place, there's good road links, sea ports, rail links and even an airport all close at hand. The town was also built with investment in mind similar to all the other new towns but in my lifetime I've seen huge employers such as Volvo, ICI and Hyster all go to the wall and then a huge reduction in jobs at Smithkline Beecham and nothing has appeared in their places. There's also been a myriad of smaller manufacturers also closed down but you just wonder why more wasn't done to bring investment to the area.

As I say, if you bring it right down to local level, we in Ayrshire (and many places similar) have been failed by all the main political parties and as such I believe that "Brexit" is really just the beginning of disillusionment among the masses.

Who knows, if it wasn't for reality TV shows and facebook updates people might actually care enough about their plight to get up and do something about it, but sadly I'm not holding my breath for that one...................

[renton]

Just now, Detournement said:

The EU barely registers compared to independence up here. Unionist parties wouldn't be any more diluted than the SNP would be by their 30% of Leave voters.

 

 

 

You think there is still 30% Leave voters voting SNP? Most of them went somewhere else in 2017. It's a fair bet that Brexit would command more attention in a GE on the back of a VONC next week.

There may also have been a shift in opinions regarding a 2nd Indy ref if the previous polling is correct. Talking about Indy in the face if a Hard Brexit won't be a massive turn off for voters. 

[Glenanover]

43 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

The SNP should now be coming out and DEMANDING  Indyref2  NOW.

I because thats what Scotland needs just now, another divisive referendum.

[HTG]

9 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The EU barely registers compared to independence up here. Unionist parties wouldn't be any more diluted than the SNP would be by their 30% of Leave voters.

 

 

 

Smell the fear. 

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, renton said:

You think there is still 30% Leave voters voting SNP? Most of them went somewhere else in 2017. It's a fair bet that Brexit would command more attention in a GE on the back of a VONC next week.

There may also have been a shift in opinions regarding a 2nd Indy ref if the previous polling is correct. Talking about Indy in the face if a Hard Brexit won't be a massive turn off for voters. 

I think there is still a significant number of Yes/Leave voters. The SNP need those voters.

I just don't see the SNP going balls out on independence in Holyrood or Westminster elections any time soon. It stirs up too much opposition for not much reward. They got very lucky that the BBC Ruth propaganda caused a lot of anti SNP voters  to f**k up their tactical voting in 2017. I don't think that will happen again.

[ArabianKnight]

30 minutes ago, renton said:

Wouldn't expect to hear much until after the almost inevitable vote of no confidence next week.

I wasn't putting a time limit on it. I'm not expecting a UDI declaration but if they don't go in hard and use this as a massive political lever then we may as well call it a day. 

This is an absolute disgrace to democracy and no sugar coating will make it seem anything other than what it is. 

[HTG]

5 minutes ago, Glenanover said:

I because thats what Scotland needs just now, another divisive referendum.

Lol you're fuckin brilliant at this. Chapeau - belter bingo! 

[Big Rider]

8 minutes ago, Glenanover said:

I because thats what Scotland needs just now, another divisive referendum.

Is that you Ruth?

[Lofarl]

Scenes when the Sein Fein MPs roll up swear allegiance and partake in a VONC.

[renton]

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I think there is still a significant number of Yes/Leave voters. The SNP need those voters.

I just don't see the SNP going balls out on independence in Holyrood or Westminster elections any time soon. It stirs up too much opposition for not much reward. They got very lucky that the BBC Ruth propaganda caused a lot of anti SNP voters  to f**k up their tactical voting in 2017. I don't think that will happen again.

I'd love to see the post 2017 GE data on that.

As for the rest, Not sure it was the BBC that saved SNP skin in 2017, that's a hell of a hot take. What I do think is that in 2019, in light of polling showing a softening of opinion towards having the referendum, as well as the number one issue of Brexit as a barrier to some Unionists tactically voting across party lines and quite frankly having walked their supporters and voters up that particular hill (and who would be far more motivated to vote in such a situation - in the central belt in 2017 it wasn't SNP switchers but rather SNP stay at home that nearly did them in), that Sturgeon has not much option but to go and push hard, and quite frankly it's a moral imperative at this point.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by renton

[ArabianKnight]

3 minutes ago, HTG said:

Lol you're fuckin brilliant at this. Chapeau - belter bingo! 

 

11 minutes ago, Glenanover said:

I because thats what Scotland needs just now, another divisive referendum.

Aye because facisim at Westminster is such a better alternative 

[Romeo]

I because thats what Scotland needs just now, another divisive referendum.

^^^ knows it's coming.

[cyderspaceman]

8 minutes ago, Lofarl said:

Scenes when the Sein Fein MPs roll up swear allegiance and partake in a VONC.

Won't happen. 

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, renton said:

I'd love to see the post 2017 GE data on that.

As for the rest, Not sure it was the BBC that saved SNP skin in 2017, that's a hell of a hot take. What I do think is that in 2019, in light of polling showing a softening of opinion towards having the referendum, as well as the number one issue of Brexit as a barrier to some Unionists tactically voting across party lines and quite frankly having walked their supporters and voters up that particular hill (and who would be far more motivated to vote in such a situation - in the central belt in 2017 it wasn't SNP switchers but rather SNP stay at home that nearly did them in), that Sturgeon has not much option but to go and push hard, and quite frankly it's a moral imperative at this point.

 

I'm not sure if you can count people who only voted SNP in 2015 as SNP stay at home.

Given the increase in the Tory vote in the central belt and the number of near miss Labour gains from SNP it would only have taken a small proportion of the new Tories to switch to Labour to cost the SNP roughly ten seats. The BBC hailing the Tory council election results without acknowledging that they only stood one candidate in most seats compared to two for Labour and the SNP gave unionist voters a false impression of the strength of the Tories in the central belt.

 

[cyderspaceman]

1 hour ago, Hedgecutter said:

The Irish giving the Scots a showing  up.