Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Londonwell]

2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Getting a majority for any proposition tonight was going to be a tough ask and none of the proponents of the exercise expected it.

I’m pretty confident that a majority will emerge on Monday, hopefully after MV3 getting voted down for the third time.

If May chooses to ignore that then there could be a successful VoC that goes against the government.  The one thing that might stop that is Soubry’s lot as they will be scared shitless at the Ida of a GE.

 

Aye it was indicative votes tonight, the key is in the name. We will now (probably) go onto a run off between the top choices on Monday. People seem to be getting confused with what tonight means.

If there’s no definitive answer on Monday, then aye fill your boots.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

How would this be possible?

Exactly how it's happening now.

If we do get independence the SNP will need to learn from this shambles that you need to be independent before you start negotiating.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Not as crazy as it sounds; remember the reaction of Johnson and Gove the day after the Referendum ?  They looked as if they had shat themselves.

 

Bit like Trump using the election campaign to promote a new news channel until he fucked it up and won.

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

I'm starting to think that there is a decent chunk of the ERG who just want to get back to the good old days of moaning about the EU to attract voters to the right without any likelihood of it changing our relationship with Europe.

 

 

It's the same reason why Farage is making some utterly weird comments about a 2nd referendum or a parliamentary vote of no deal vs revoke. He doesn't want to lose his raison d'etre,

 

Just now, welshbairn said:

There's nothing in May's deal that stops Labour's suggestion happening. It's purely party political.

 

It depends whether you want to consider the withdrawal deal as being completely independent of the ultimate hardness/softness of Brexit. Labour are voting it down to try and force a GE.

[dirty dingus]

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

What? Blackford is talking about a GE and a customs union seems the outcome with the most chance of succeeding. Both are Labour policies.

The Labour membership are strongly behind Corbyn. The likes of Starmer, Benn or Jess Phillips will never win a leadership contest.

You know at a GE the SNP will fight against Westminster about our views being ignored, Scots Lab supported the Indy parties today on Scotland not getting respected over Brexit. In a GE  in Scotland it's a straight fight between Brexit yoons and Euro Indies  

[Tibbermoresaint]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Exactly how it's happening now.

If we do get independence the SNP will need to learn from this shambles that you need to be independent before you start negotiating.

You're making no sense whatsoever.

[Detournement]

If we have a GE everything will be up for debate again.

If won't be a de facto referendum.

[dirty dingus]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

If we have a GE everything will be up for debate again.

If won't be a de facto referendum.

It will be in Scotland.

 

[Donathan]

4 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

How would this be possible?

 

Spoiler alert: If Scotland ever votes to become an independent country there will need to be all kinds of negotiations in the aftermath of the referendum on the best way to go about (a) the secession and (b) the future relationship between Scotland and whatever's left of the UK (Eng/Wal/NI or indeed just ENG/WAL)

 

During these negotiations and subsequent votes in the Scottish parliament, there will no doubt be some hardline SNP MSPs who wish to leave with no deal, some will support the deal that Sturgeon (or whoever is FM) has negotiated with Westminster, meanwhile the unionist MSPs will be calling for a people's vote in order confirm whether we want to bother with independence full stop.

 

People like Wishart are opposed to EUref2 because it will potentially validate the unionist MSPs asking for a confirmatory vote on a secession deal at some point after a future yes vote to Scottish independence.

[Detournement]

Just now, Tibbermoresaint said:

You're making no sense whatsoever.

Ok.

If Scotland votes for independence the UK will negotiate in bad faith over divorce terms, project fear will kick in regarding imports via England and the right to work in rUK and Unionist media and politicians will argue that the electorate didn't have all the information and there must be another referendum between an unpopular London dictated settlement and the union. The SNP will be too shit feart of upsetting the banks to declare UDI.

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

It's the same reason why Farage is making some utterly weird comments about a 2nd referendum or a parliamentary vote of no deal vs revoke. He doesn't want to lose his raison d'etre,

 

 

It depends whether you want to consider the withdrawal deal as being completely independent of the ultimate hardness/softness of Brexit. Labour are voting it down to try and force a GE.

The Government will not survive with or without May, they won't get anything passed. There will be a General Election this year, Corbyn wants to get us out of the EU and the Tories to get the blame first, even if it's a hard brexit.

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

 

Spoiler alert: If Scotland ever votes to become an independent country there will need to be all kinds of negotiations in the aftermath of the referendum on the best way to go about (a) the secession and (b) the future relationship between Scotland and whatever's left of the UK (Eng/Wal/NI or indeed just ENG/WAL)

 

During these negotiations and subsequent votes in the Scottish parliament, there will no doubt be some hardline SNP MSPs who wish to leave with no deal, some will support the deal that Sturgeon (or whoever is FM) has negotiated with Westminster, meanwhile the unionist MSPs will be calling for a people's vote in order confirm whether we want to bother with independence full stop.

 

People like Wishart are opposed to EUref2 because it will potentially validate the unionist MSPs asking for a confirmatory vote on a secession deal at some point after a future yes vote to Scottish independence.

Your first paragraph makes sense. The second and third are fantasy.

[Tibbermoresaint]

Just now, Detournement said:

Ok.

If Scotland votes for independence the UK will negotiate in bad faith over divorce terms, project fear will kick in regarding imports via England and the right to work in rUK and Unionist media and politicians will argue that the electorate didn't have all the information and there must be another referendum between an unpopular London dictated settlement and the union. The SNP will be too shit feart of upsetting the banks to declare UDI.

Another fantasist. The idea that London will be dictating the settlement is hilarious.

[Donathan]

Just now, Tibbermoresaint said:

Another fantasist. The idea that London will be dictating the settlement is hilarious.

 

They largely will, just like the EU has negotiated with May to come up with the withdrawal deal.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Another fantasist. The idea that London will be dictating the settlement is hilarious.

They will dictate the settlement if the negotiations are done before independence.

They control everything and are under no duress to give ground on anything. Ask the Chagos islanders.

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

 

They largely will, just like the EU has negotiated with May to come up with the withdrawal deal.

Nonsense. 

[Guest Jedi]

Ultimately, whatever the outcome there is going to have to be a GE this year. If her deal passes she goes and it would have to be held probably in the summer. If its a longer extension which currently looks the most likely, there would still have to be a GE to try and clear the blockage. Tonight has surely made the GE a certainty.

Is there a chance of having another go at her deal on Friday?

If Monday becomes a trade off between Clarke's customs union and a 2nd Ref, chances are both will be voted down again anyway...if she then waits on MV 3 it would surely have to be next midweek at the latest. If its bombed out again then, it would furious scuttling around to get the longer extension then.

On what is off the table after tonight, it would seem to be No deal (again), Norway/Common Market 2.0 (despite being the earlier favourite) and revoking A50. (so much for 5.6 million signatures and 1 million march). 

[Granny Danger]

10 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

Aye it was indicative votes tonight, the key is in the name. We will now (probably) go onto a run off between the top choices on Monday. People seem to be getting confused with what tonight means.

If there’s no definitive answer on Monday, then aye fill your boots.

Yeah, like I said earlier pretty good news all round.  The only possibly fly in the ointment is the DUP but there’s no indication that they will change their position.  A majority for something on Monday will make the government’s position virtually untenable.

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Aye it was indicative votes tonight, the key is in the name. We will now (probably) go onto a run off between the top choices on Monday. People seem to be getting confused with what tonight means.
If there’s no definitive answer on Monday, then aye fill your boots.

I'm afraid this post makes no sense. Surely a run off on the top 3 (STV won't happen)will just garnish same results?

[Guest Jedi]

Why would there be enough who voted down a 2nd ref or customs union model on Monday to now put either of these through though? Majority of Tories will still be against both.