The Official Former President Trump thread

[G51]

22 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

There's nothing they can do while the Republicans have the numbers. The Republicans changed the rules so they can block filibustering with a majority of one. 

This just proves my point.

If you can't do anything within the rules, then you do something outside of the rules. Tie it up in legal action, civil disobedience, targeted action against prospective justices and potential swing senators. If it matters that much, you'll find a way of making it happen or give everything trying.

But another right-wing justice doesn't bother the centrist Democrats. Mostly because it poses no real threat to them - the middle classes won't suffer. I've no doubt there are some centrists who are thinking that the spectacle of Trump forcing through another justice will help them in the election.

Sadly, the vulnerable in society who will be affected by this have no representation. They are supposed to be represented by the Democrats, but this is a party that has no interest in enacting meaningful change that will help them. Coming second to the Republicans and maintaining the status quo is much more preferable than winning on a platform of radical action.

[carpetmonster]

22 minutes ago, G51 said:

This just proves my point.

If you can't do anything within the rules, then you do something outside of the rules. Tie it up in legal action, civil disobedience, targeted action against prospective justices and potential swing senators. If it matters that much, you'll find a way of making it happen or give everything trying.

But another right-wing justice doesn't bother the centrist Democrats. Mostly because it poses no real threat to them - the middle classes won't suffer. I've no doubt there are some centrists who are thinking that the spectacle of Trump forcing through another justice will help them in the election.

Sadly, the vulnerable in society who will be affected by this have no representation. They are supposed to be represented by the Democrats, but this is a party that has no interest in enacting meaningful change that will help them. Coming second to the Republicans and maintaining the status quo is much more preferable than winning on a platform of radical action.

Re ‘tie it up in legal action’ - which court are they gonna take it to?

[welshbairn]

I'm sure if there is a way to block the vote through legal or extra legal means the Democrats would be looking into it, none of the experts have come up with anything yet. They could always try to disrupt the proceedings or stand outside the Capitol building with "It's Not Fair!" placards, but the vote would be held anyway and Trump would win without 4 defections. 

I get bored of this argument that they're all the same and there's no point in siding with the less bad option, everyone should sit on their hands until Noam Chomsky sweeps to power in his inevitable popular landslide.

[Savage Henry]

40 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'm sure if there is a way to block the vote through legal or extra legal means the Democrats would be looking into it, none of the experts have come up with anything yet. They could always try to disrupt the proceedings or stand outside the Capitol building with "It's Not Fair!" placards, but the vote would be held anyway and Trump would win without 4 defections. 

I get bored of this argument that they're all the same and there's no point in siding with the less bad option, everyone should sit on their hands until Noam Chomsky sweeps to power in his inevitable popular landslide.

Right.  Hypocrisy isn’t illegal. It’s completely distasteful, but it’s not against the law.  

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

Hypocrisy is the calling card of the GOP now.  And Trump enablers, the anti-anti Trump crowd, will find a way to justify it.  

These are the times that Trump apologists really get what they deserve.  

Generally yes, but there's already one Senator said he won't approve a Justice before inauguration, and Romney is expected to follow. It only takes two more and folk in the know think it's possible. 

3 hours ago, welshbairn said:

They've got till January rather than just till the election. Doesn't seem like there's much the Dems can do to stop it it without Republican rebels, but if they win the Presidency and take over the Senate they could just appoint 2 more Justices to restore the balance. There's nothing in the constitution to prevent it, now that the norms of precedent and what's deemed as acceptable behaviour have gone out of the window.

True. But they'd need to control the Senate and at this stage that's 50-50 at best.

[G51]

48 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'm sure if there is a way to block the vote through legal or extra legal means the Democrats would be looking into it, none of the experts have come up with anything yet. They could always try to disrupt the proceedings or stand outside the Capitol building with "It's Not Fair!" placards, but the vote would be held anyway and Trump would win without 4 defections. 

I get bored of this argument that they're all the same and there's no point in siding with the less bad option, everyone should sit on their hands until Noam Chomsky sweeps to power in his inevitable popular landslide.

If the centre is so sick of this, then it needs to offer something to the left to win their votes. But time and time again, as we saw in the UK elections in 2019, the centre would rather blow itself up and blame the left than do this.

If Biden doesn't offer genuinely progressive policies that have majority support across the nation, such as Medicare for all, then he runs the risk of getting exactly what he deserves.

Centrists have all the power here. Fucking use it. Prove you're actually interested in changing things for the better.

[btb]

The Don might be able to push through a "not too extreme" candidate before January but that's not really been his style and any skeleton in the candidate's closet would most likely scupper it before then too.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by btb

[carpetmonster]

22 minutes ago, btb said:

The Don might be able to push through a "not too extreme" candidate before January but that's not really been his style and any skeleton in the candidate's closet would most likely scupper it before then too.

 

Kavanaugh went from nomination to appointment in under 3 months and his closet rivals Jeffrey Dahmer’s. 

[btb]

2 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

Kavanaugh went from nomination to appointment in under 3 months and his closet rivals Jeffrey Dahmer’s. 

Fair enough but at this stage in the  election cycle I feel there would be more incentive for the Democrats to filibuster or whatever it takes like the Republicans did 4 years ago.

[Savage Henry]

57 minutes ago, G51 said:

If the centre is so sick of this, then it needs to offer something to the left to win their votes. But time and time again, as we saw in the UK elections in 2019, the centre would rather blow itself up and blame the left than do this.

If Biden doesn't offer genuinely progressive policies that have majority support across the nation, such as Medicare for all, then he runs the risk of getting exactly what he deserves.

Centrists have all the power here. Fucking use it. Prove you're actually interested in changing things for the better.

It's almost as if the Democrats and the Republicans can't behave in the same way.  The Democrats leaning to the left alienates more voters than the Republicans leaning to the right.  

Bernie or bust = tacit support for Trump.   Neither of the two main parties in the US would appeal to many voters in the UK, let alone on the politics forum of P&B.  So we have to be realistic here; Biden has to present his policies in such a way that appeals to the majority of the US electorate, while not alienating the centre right swing vote.  It results in policies which won't appeal to anyone here, but which provide a safe, no threats, competent alternative to Trump.  That doesn't mean that Biden is as bad as Trump, it's just that there's no point in presenting those differences in a way which threatens Middle America.  Any nuanced reading of the two candidates, however, tells you how much of a difference there will be, even if Biden doesn't openly come out and say it.

[Savage Henry]

9 minutes ago, btb said:

Fair enough but at this stage in the  election cycle I feel there would be more incentive for the Democrats to filibuster or whatever it takes like the Republicans did 4 years ago.

Filibustering has been deemed inadmissible by majority vote.  The Republicans can basically introduce filibustering on any Democratic proposal, and outlaw it on any Republican one.  Which is what will happen here.  It's gross, but that's the GOP for you.  They're the personification of a parcel of rogues.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Savage Henry

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, Savage Henry said:

Filibustering has been deemed inadmissible by majority vote.  The Republicans can basically introduce filibustering on any Democratic proposal, and outlaw it on any Republican one.  Which is what will happen here.  It's gross, but that's the GOP for you.  

Specifically, on an SC nomination a filibuster can be shut down by a simple majority vote of 51 senators and the GOP has 53. 

[NotThePars]

[carpetmonster]

4 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Me and the girls going to pour one out over brunch in memory of the Notorious RBG.

Rest in power kween.

Wakanda forever.

Blow it out your arse you fucking tosser. 

[G51]

4 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

It's almost as if the Democrats and the Republicans can't behave in the same way.  The Democrats leaning to the left alienates more voters than the Republicans leaning to the right.  

Bernie or bust = tacit support for Trump.   Neither of the two main parties in the US would appeal to many voters in the UK, let alone on the politics forum of P&B.  So we have to be realistic here; Biden has to present his policies in such a way that appeals to the majority of the US electorate, while not alienating the centre right swing vote.  It results in policies which won't appeal to anyone here, but which provide a safe, no threats, competent alternative to Trump.  That doesn't mean that Biden is as bad as Trump, it's just that there's no point in presenting those differences in a way which threatens Middle America.  Any nuanced reading of the two candidates, however, tells you how much of a difference there will be, even if Biden doesn't openly come out and say it.

Where's the proof of this? Left wing policies are popular across the board - Medicare for all regularly gets 70% approval among the American public when polled. This excuse is total nonsense and doesn't stand up to any serious scrutiny.

This is exactly the strategy that Hillary tried and she got thumped for it. Like I said, centrists prefer to blow themselves up than make the world better. It's the life story of centrism - no ambition, no achievements, no purpose, other than the maintenance of the status quo that got them there. They'll side with the fascists over the left every single time.

 

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, G51 said:

Where's the proof of this? Left wing policies are popular across the board - Medicare for all regularly gets 70% approval among the American public when polled. This excuse is total nonsense and doesn't stand up to any serious scrutiny.

This is exactly the strategy that Hillary tried and she got thumped for it. Like I said, centrists prefer to blow themselves up than make the world better. It's the life story of centrism - no ambition, no achievements, no purpose, other than the maintenance of the status quo that got them there. They'll side with the fascists over the left every single time.

 

The proof of this is that Bernie can’t win primaries and unfortunately the best we’re gonna get is a centrist taking some progressive agenda on board. 

[G51]

7 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

The proof of this is that Bernie can’t win primaries and unfortunately the best we’re gonna get is a centrist taking some progressive agenda on board. 

The 2020 primaries only prove that when the status quo is threatened, the Democrats will literally spend hundreds of millions of pounds to protect it. Bernie polled better against Trump than Biden did.

And Joe Biden isn't taking any left policies on board, so we're not getting you're supposed "Best we can get".

Edited September 19, 2020 by G51

[carpetmonster]

4 minutes ago, G51 said:

The 2020 primaries only prove that when the status quo is threatened, the Democrats will literally spend hundreds of millions of pounds to protect it. Bernie polled better against Trump than Biden did.

And Joe Biden isn't taking any left policies on board, so we're not getting you're supposed "Best we can get".

Biden humped Sanders with African Americans, particularly those 40 and older. It’s due entirely to the AA vote in Alabama that the man who sent down the Klan has a seat over a sex offender, and is within the margin of error that every single black women voter in that election voted Jones. Relying on the young to vote doesn’t work, this has been proven. If it’s a choice between Biden giving a couple of milksops to Bernie and appointing AOC to a few committees against a President who’s fully intent on putting a racist propaganda curriculum into the public schools he can’t defund and an Attorney General who wants protestors exercising first amendment rights to be charged with sedition, then it’s not an overly hard to choice to make. 

[G51]

3 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

Biden humped Sanders with African Americans, particularly those 40 and older. It’s due entirely to the AA vote in Alabama that the man who sent down the Klan has a seat over a sex offender, and is within the margin of error that every single black women voter in that election voted Jones. Relying on the young to vote doesn’t work, this has been proven. If it’s a choice between Biden giving a couple of milksops to Bernie and appointing AOC to a few committees against a President who’s fully intent on putting a racist propaganda curriculum into the public schools he can’t defund and an Attorney General who wants protestors exercising first amendment rights to be charged with sedition, then it’s not an overly hard to choice to make. 

This isn't the choice being offered. Biden is offering nothing. So if he loses, the blame will lie squarely with himself and the centre as a whole. The left has no reason to vote for Biden other than Trump is worse. That's not enough.

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, G51 said:

This isn't the choice being offered. Biden is offering nothing. So if he loses, the blame will lie squarely with himself and the centre as a whole. The left has no reason to vote for Biden other than Trump is worse. That's not enough.

AOC is heading up his climate change committee. 

Do you live in America? It’s enough. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by carpetmonster