The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[Molotov]

44 minutes ago, ZingaliMan said:

Same with Aberdeen at the beginning of the season getting a penalty that was also called wrongly. That's a potential 6 points dropped to incompetence. 

Not sure of your calculations. 

If we had won both games we would only have gained an additional 4 points over the 2 we secured. 

The Aberdeen game really should have been out of sight before that penalty. It was also debated there was a possible penalty after the double hit one. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

24 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

The latest incident re-inforces my own personal opinion on VAR. Never wanted it in the first place, and, having attended many matches now with it in place, get it to fcuk. Slow motion and freeze frame to decide if someone is literally a baw’ hair offside? Not truly celebrating a goal as you used to? Waiting to find out that something inconsequential two ‘phases’ previously sees a goal chalked off? Seeing Tavernier get to Ally McCoist levels of goalscoring due to it? VAR is a fcuking abomination. The technology AND the useless kunts up here in charge of it. When it was clear Scotland was getting VAR, I tried to find a positive in it. I clung to the hope that all the ‘honest mistakes’ I have witnessed down the years in favour of two certain clubs might be subject to a second layer of scrutiny, and they’d be called out by VAR. Have they fcuk. It’s given officials in a darkened room somewhere the opportunity to go full Monty ‘penalty to the Rangers’. In games involving two diddy teams, I thought ‘ach well, it might help with the ‘clear and obvious’ mistakes. Again, has it fcuk. Witness Dingwall.

I don’t want to be told my problem isn’t with the technology, it’s with the humans using the technology. No thanks, I have a problem with the technology being here, AND with the wallopers put in charge of it. Get it, and them, so far to fcuk.

The problem is NOT with the technology. The technology is fine. 
The problem IS with the people in charge of it, but not just in relation to incompetence, I mean what it is being used for.

VAR would be great in my opinion if it was used simply to look for obvious errors. For example an offside call. Have a look, if there’s clear daylight. Offside. If you need to start drawing lines etc f**k that. On field decision stands. Same with handball, penslties and red card offences. 

VAR is not the problem. Use it properly and it’s a benefit to our game. 

Sadly pragmatism and competence are not words associated with our officials and governing body. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

4 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Not sure of your calculations. 

If we had won both games we would only have gained an additional 4 points over the 2 we secured. 

The Aberdeen game really should have been out of sight before that penalty. It was also debated there was a possible penalty after the double hit one. 

Beat me to my pedantry ya wee rascal ye!

[Ric]

1 hour ago, pozbaird said:

...

You are entitled to your opinion, even if some of that opinion simply backs up my point.

Still, no need to expand on this as I said my piece in the VAR thread and we don't need the conversation spilling over into this one.

As it is, I think you'll join me in agreeing that referees admitting it was a mistake not to use VAR "properly" is a good thing.

 

[Eddie Hitler]

40 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

The problem is NOT with the technology. The technology is fine. 
The problem IS with the people in charge of it, but not just in relation to incompetence, I mean what it is being used for.

VAR would be great in my opinion if it was used simply to look for obvious errors. For example an offside call. Have a look, if there’s clear daylight. Offside. If you need to start drawing lines etc f**k that. On field decision stands. Same with handball, penslties and red card offences. 

VAR is not the problem. Use it properly and it’s a benefit to our game. 

Sadly pragmatism and competence are not words associated with our officials and governing body. 

Sorry, but the technology is NOT fine either.

They don't even have enough cameras to get all the needed angles to make decent decisions.

And we will NEVER EVER have these mythical consistent refs that people keep insisting will show up and use it well.

They will always be incompetent.

VAR also costs money that can ill be afforded.

So if it's No VAR = incompetence and crap decisions, or VAR+loadsamoney = incompetence and crap decisions, then I'm for getting VAR into the fucking bin.

And let's be clear - those ARE the choices: the Incoming Competent Refs are a myth.

[Eddie Hitler]

2 minutes ago, Ric said:

You are entitled to your opinion, even if some of that opinion simply backs up my point.

Still, no need to expand on this as I said my piece in the VAR thread and we don't need the conversation spilling over into this one.

As it is, I think you'll join me in agreeing that referees admitting it was a mistake not to use VAR "properly" is a good thing.

 

Yeah, it doesn't though because your mythical Competent Refs to Use Your Beloved VAR technology are a fucking myth. Stop trying to be smart, and live in reality.

[Ric]

21 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Stop trying to be smart, and live in reality.

Deary me.

If your point was valid, you wouldn't stoop to ad hominem.

Edited February 29 by Ric

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

19 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Sorry, but the technology is NOT fine either.

They don't even have enough cameras to get all the needed angles to make decent decisions.

And we will NEVER EVER have these mythical consistent refs that people keep insisting will show up and use it well.

They will always be incompetent.

VAR also costs money that can ill be afforded.

So if it's No VAR = incompetence and crap decisions, or VAR+loadsamoney = incompetence and crap decisions, then I'm for getting VAR into the fucking bin.

And let's be clear - those ARE the choices: the Incoming Competent Refs are a myth.

Just to be clear when I said the technology was not the problem, I meant that the concept of VAR is not the issue. I’m aware we’ve got a tin pot version of it. That’s not what I was claiming is ok. 
Your opinion above is fine, but blame the “incompetence and crap decisions” not the concept of VAR. 

[Ric]

...anyway...

 

Onto the up coming game, is it just me who has the fear with this.

I'd much rather Aberdeen had suffered a meek goal-less draw against the farmers.

[GAD]

To be fair, VAR did stop the seething weirdos in charge of the Dundee game from chopping off Olusanya's goal. And it also forced them to give at least one goal that was a meer 3 feet over the line this season that they weren't going to give either. Apart from that though it's done us very few favours.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

1 minute ago, GAD said:

To be fair, VAR did stop the seething weirdos in charge of the Dundee game from chopping off Olusanya's goal. And it also forced them to give at least one goal that was a meer 3 feet over the line this season that they weren't going to give either. Apart from that though it's done us very few favours.

Can’t remember the game, but it also gave us a penalty for a shirt pull on Richard Taylor that not one person saw because he was nowhere near the ball. 

[AW saint]

It is the St Mirren way that we will lose on Saturday

[pozbaird]

1 hour ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

The problem is NOT with the technology. The technology is fine. 
The problem IS with the people in charge of it, but not just in relation to incompetence, I mean what it is being used for.

VAR would be great in my opinion if it was used simply to look for obvious errors. For example an offside call. Have a look, if there’s clear daylight. Offside. If you need to start drawing lines etc f**k that. On field decision stands. Same with handball, penslties and red card offences. 

VAR is not the problem. Use it properly and it’s a benefit to our game. 

Sadly pragmatism and competence are not words associated with our officials and governing body. 

Same thing to Ric, my own personal opinion, having watched football without VAR, and now with VAR, is that I like neither the technology, nor the officials handed the keys to drive the technology. The technology is not adding to my enjoyment of live football, it is detracting from it. I don’t care if they could put prime time Perluigi Colina in charge of VAR, I don’t like it. Having seen it, and no-one clearly needs to agree with me, I’d definitely like to go back to the referee and referee’s assistants running the lines, calling it as they see it live. Put it this way, I’ve seen plenty of Willie Collum, and Willie Collum with VAR. It’s worse with VAR. I don’t enjoy my football as much, and would rather see it gone.

[AW saint]

3 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Same thing to Ric, my own personal opinion, having watched football without VAR, and now with VAR, is that I like neither the technology, nor the officials handed the keys to drive the technology. The technology is not adding to my enjoyment of live football, it is detracting from it. I don’t care if they could put prime time Perluigi Colina in charge of VAR, I don’t like it. Having seen it, and no-one clearly needs to agree with me, I’d definitely like to go back to the referee and referee’s assistants running the lines, calling it as they see it live. Put it this way, I’ve seen plenty of Willie Collum, and Willie Collum with VAR. It’s worse with VAR. I don’t enjoy my football as much, and would rather see it gone.

Playing devils advocate. Would you enjoy games more if we actually got the decisions that we should of had? 

We tend to be on the wrong end of decisions more often than not. 

The ugly sisters appear to get more VAR decisions going for them than anyone else. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

6 minutes ago, AW saint said:

It is the St Mirren way that we will lose on Saturday

I don’t think there’s any real pattern to our season at all.

We’ve won 11 games. 6 of them were games I would routinely expect us to win and 5 were unexpected/good wins.

We’ve also lost 11 games and 7 of them were games I’d routinely expect to lose with 4 being “surprise” defeats. 

Of our 6 draws, 3 were games where you might’ve expected a draw and 3 were games I expected to win. None were games where we got an unexpected/bonus draw. 

And having said all that, I’ve no idea what it tells us!

[pozbaird]

1 minute ago, AW saint said:

Playing devils advocate. Would you enjoy games more if we actually got the decisions that we should of had? 

We tend to be on the wrong end of decisions more often than not. 

The ugly sisters appear to get more VAR decisions going for them than anyone else. 

With complete honesty, it’s not to do specifically with the amount of VAR decisions that have gone for, or against, St Mirren. I can be watching a live game on TV from the EPL or wherever, and sit watching a freeze frame while they draw lines to try and show someone was literally a baw’ hair offside. The technology that allows a referee to know if England actually had a ball cross the line in 1966 is technology I like.

Anyway, I sincerely apologise for veering off into VAR territory, but I won’t apologise for wishing we didn’t have it. I used to go to the fitba’ and afterwards we’d talk about any refereeing decisions. Now there’s still refereeing decisions, AND VAR officialdom decisions. 
 

Anyway, let’s see how many times VAR sticks its’ neb in on Saturday. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

13 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Same thing to Ric, my own personal opinion, having watched football without VAR, and now with VAR, is that I like neither the technology, nor the officials handed the keys to drive the technology. The technology is not adding to my enjoyment of live football, it is detracting from it. I don’t care if they could put prime time Perluigi Colina in charge of VAR, I don’t like it. Having seen it, and no-one clearly needs to agree with me, I’d definitely like to go back to the referee and referee’s assistants running the lines, calling it as they see it live. Put it this way, I’ve seen plenty of Willie Collum, and Willie Collum with VAR. It’s worse with VAR. I don’t enjoy my football as much, and would rather see it gone.

Yes but what is it that is detracting from your enjoyment. I’m going to assume that it can’t be the concept of correct decisions being made. That would be daft. I’m also going to assume that it’s the totally unacceptable length of time to make decisions, some of which are inexplicable. 
My version of VAR only has obviously correct decisions and no time at all taken to make them. 

[pozbaird]

2 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Yes but what is it that is detracting from your enjoyment. I’m going to assume that it can’t be the concept of correct decisions being made. That would be daft. I’m also going to assume that it’s the totally unacceptable length of time to make decisions, some of which are inexplicable. 
My version of VAR only has obviously correct decisions and no time at all taken to make them. 

Your version of VAR exists in a world where I’m going out on Saturday wi’ Kylie Minogue, Christina Trevanion fae’ the antiques shows, and Kate Bryan fae’ the Portrait Artist of the Year shows…. I like the sound of that world.

[VincentGuerin]

1 hour ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

The problem is NOT with the technology. The technology is fine. 
The problem IS with the people in charge of it, but not just in relation to incompetence, I mean what it is being used for.

VAR would be great in my opinion if it was used simply to look for obvious errors. For example an offside call. Have a look, if there’s clear daylight. Offside. If you need to start drawing lines etc f**k that. On field decision stands. Same with handball, penslties and red card offences. 

VAR is not the problem. Use it properly and it’s a benefit to our game. 

Sadly pragmatism and competence are not words associated with our officials and governing body. 

Why do people keep saying this? How much more evidence do you need?

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

18 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Your version of VAR exists in a world where I’m going out on Saturday wi’ Kylie Minogue, Christina Trevanion fae’ the antiques shows, and Kate Bryan fae’ the Portrait Artist of the Year shows…. I like the sound of that world.

Ok so we’re agreed that VAR is not the problem then