The Hibernian Thread

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Lorient required it, as French FFP rules are quite tight.

There is no need for Bournemouth to pay Hibs a large fee for a player.

Amazing we've had FFP around for so long, yet it remains a mystery to so many.

You realise this isnt a bad thing, dont you? Bournemouth giving Lorient a fortune and allowing them room to try and improve isnt a bad thing? 

FWIW theres literally zero reason for this new guy to want Hibs to be shite, in fact the opposite is true. Youre speaking in the same way i saw folk talking about the Red Bull clubs when they started appearing, and the City Group teams. The whole idea is to have a roster of clubs are the top of the chain in as many countries as possible.

This "identity" schitck is just bizarre too, we're all just feeder clubs for the EPL anyway, and thinking it being official and you getting increased income is a bad thing is just desperate. If Man City bought into Hearts youd be over the moon, as theyd guarantee to spend a fortune on every part of your club and improve it. Accepting being a 2nd rate outfit with zero chance of ever winning the league because "identity" when youre desperate to sell players to an EPL club every Summer and look at that leagues rejects for signings is tragic.

Edited December 14, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

You realise this isnt a bad thing, dont you? Bournemouth giving Lorient a fortune and allowing them room to try and improve isnt a bad thing? 

FWIW theres literally zero reason for this new guy to want Hibs to be shite, in fact the opposite is true. Youre speaking in the same way i saw folk talking about the Red Bull clubs when they started appearing, and the City Group teams. The whole idea is to have a roster of clubs are the top of the chain in as many countries as possible.

This "identity" schitck is just bizarre too, we're all just feeder clubs for the EPL anyway, and thinking it being official and you getting increased income is a bad thing is just desperate. If Man City bought into Hearts youd be over the moon, as theyd guarantee to spend a fortune on every part of your club and improve it.

I've never said he'll want Hibs to be bad. I'm saying Hibs are locking themselves into a situation where they are at best third in the priority list. And it remains to be seen how easy it is for them to get out of it. The dangers are obvious, and the difference between Hibs and Lorient is obvious. People are just choosing to ignore it.

Seen a few people hitting out with this "we're feeder clubs anyway" rubbish. There's the obvious point that this removes the club's choice, which is a material difference in the current situation (see the McGinn deal), but I also just fundamentally disagree with you about the nature of the club's identity.

I wouldn't want my club being structurally subserviant to another one. This makes Hibs just that. I think more of their fans will be uncomfortable with that than will say it out loud online.

If Man City bought into Hearts, I'd never go back. You can believe it or disbelieve it, but it's consistent the stance on fitba I hold in pretty much all areas of the game.

Edited December 14, 2023 by VincentGuerin

[Wee-Bey]

9 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Lorient required it, as French FFP rules are quite tight.

Are they aye ?

I thought it was Bournemouth's FFP we were meant to be concerned about ?

 

[VincentGuerin]

2 minutes ago, Chris Partlow said:

Are they aye ?

I thought it was Bournemouth's FFP we were meant to be concerned about ?

 

You'll see a lot of this as the two clubs' finances ebb and flow over the accounting period. Money will move between the two as suits.

Hibs don't have the same need. They can qualify for Europe and then there's no need to do that, as Hibs won't be expected to win anything once there.

Edited December 14, 2023 by VincentGuerin

[Guest DannyBlue]

Just now, VincentGuerin said:

Lorient required it, as French FFP rules are quite tight.

There is no need for Bournemouth to pay Hibs a large fee for a player.

Amazing we've had FFP around for so long, yet it remains a mystery to so many.

Worth noting that despite that money being available to them, and this amazing scouting network, Lorient got worse in the second half of last season (post-investment) and are now two points from bottom of the league.

Erm that's a very very dubious claim. Do you have any evidence that L'Orient were £20 million short of complying with French FFP?

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, DannyBlue said:

Erm that's a very very dubious claim. Do you have any evidence that L'Orient were £20 million short of complying with French FFP?

I didn't claim that. But the £20m transfer fee makes them much more competitive within the French FFP framework.

Hibs don't have the same concern. People are really struggling to grasp the different regulations here.

And, as noted, even with that, they are in relegation bother.

Edited December 14, 2023 by VincentGuerin

[Hoose Rice]

5 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Not really sure what's dodgy about it at all. You or I could gift money to pur clubs. And the Anderson money comes with no strings other than that he doesn't need to wear a tie.

Bizarre when people try to paint it as a negative in any way. It has literally no strings at all. He's just a rich fan who's happy to spend it.

You'll need to run by me what's dodgy about it, since it's all declared and even spoken about in the media.

I'm not aware of Anderson murdering any journalists or executing mentally ill people. Are you?

That's not allowed in England though because of financial fair play, otherwise you would just have the Saudis or the Sheiks gifting billions to the clubs, they have to find other avenues to get the money as they are gaining a sporting advantage over others - are hearts are with they gifts.

I have not much of a problem with that, you seem to a bee in your bonnet about the rich yank wanting to invest in Hibernian though.  You have no idea what the intentions of the guy is, perhaps he just wants to have a good few sports teams doing well before he leaves this life, just as James Anderson is the modern day Robin Hood. 

[Hoose Rice]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

I didn't claim that. But the £20m transfer fee makes them much more competitive within the French FFP framework.

Hibs don't have the same concern. People are really struggling to grasp the different regulations here.

The should have just gave the player to Bournemouth for free then had one of Foleys mates gift the club £20m in that case then I suppose, is that how the big teams do it? 

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, Hoose Rice said:

That's not allowed in England though because of financial fair play, otherwise you would just have the Saudis or the Sheiks gifting billions to the clubs, they have to find other avenues to get the money as they are gaining a sporting advantage over others - are hearts are with they gifts.

I have not much of a problem with that, you seem to a bee in your bonnet about the rich yank wanting to invest in Hibernian though.  You have no idea what the intentions of the guy is, perhaps he just wants to have a good few sports teams doing well before he leaves this life, just as James Anderson is the modern day Robin Hood. 

People keep inaccurately telling me what I have a problem with.

My issue isnt't with the investment. If you think that, you're reading the responses to my posts rather than what I'm saying.

My issue with it is the effect it has on your club's status, which I think is unacceptable, and also, more worrying for you than me, the loss of control this will inevitably mean for Hibs.

There seems to be an idea that this is a no-strings deal for Hibs. I think Hibs fans may well find themselves regretting not asking the questions I',m asking on this thread.

It's essentially Vlad-Sheep mode.

[GreenGray]

12 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I've never said he'll want Hibs to be bad. I'm saying Hibs are locking themselves into a situation where they are at best third in the priority list. And it remains to be seen how easy it is for them to get out of it. The dangers are obvious, and the difference between Hibs and Lorient is obvious. People are just choosing to ignore it.

Seen a few people hitting out with this "we're feeder clubs anyway" rubbish. There's the obvious point that this removes the club's choice, which is a material difference in the current situation (see the McGinn deal), but I also just fundamentally disagree with you about the nature of the club's identity.

I wouldn't want my club being structurally subserviant to another one. This makes Hibs just that. I think more of their fans will be uncomfortable with that than will say it out loud online.

If Man City bought into Hearts, I'd never go back. You can believe it or disbelieve it, but it's consistent the stance on fitba I hold in pretty much all areas of the game.

Hibs are at best third in the priority list when it comes to transfer dealings with large clubs in Europe anyway.

Reality is the outwith the old firm in Scotland the rest of us are so far down the priority list we are at risk of fading into football obscurity.
 

Our whole game up here exists to prop them up basically everything involves around them.

Truth be told post covid and VAR I have found myself rapidly falling out of love with Scottish football (think I have saw yourself state similar), this investment genuinely excites me as a fan, how can that possibly be a bad thing?

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by GreenGray

[Hoose Rice]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

People keep inaccurately telling me what I have a problem with.

My issue isnt't with the investment. If you think that, you're reading the responses to my posts rather than what I'm saying.

My issue with it is the effect it has on your club's status, which I think is unacceptable, and also, more worrying for you than me, the loss of control this will inevitably mean for Hibs.

There seems to be an idea that this is a no-strings deal for Hibs. I think Hibs fans may well find themselves regretting not asking the questions I',m asking on this thread.

It's essentially Vlad-Sheep mode.

Why are you bringing up FFP in that case?

As for identity in what will it change, we will still be Hibernian FC, a club that finishes third at best and sells our best players for peanuts usually.    How does a minimal percentage of the club indicate loss of control also?  Why on earth would the Gordons, the majority shareholders let them tell them what to do?   

Vlad sheep mode is shiting yourselves over saying anything to upset Budge in case Anderson stops gifting the club money btw. 

[VincentGuerin]

11 minutes ago, GreenGray said:

Hibs are at best third in the priority list when it comes to transfer dealings with large clubs in Europe anyway.

Reality is the outwith the old firm in Scotland the rest of us are so far down the priority list we are at risk of fading into football obscurity.
 

Our whole game up here exists to prop them up basically everything involves around them.

Truth be told post covid and VAR I am found myself rapidly falling out of love with Scottish football (think I have sae yourself state similar), this investment genuinely excites me as a fan, how can that possibly be a bad thing?

 

Mate, honestly, I hate seeing people make this point. The difference is clear. As it stands we are all way down the pecking order, but we have an element of control. Hibs didn't sell to Celtic with McGinn because they never stumped up the cash. You control when you sell, to as much extent as anyone else, and you control who you sell to, and when you don't sell because it's not worth it. This will not be the case in your relationship with Bournemouth.

The investment will be a bad thing if Hibs end up continually getting the shitty end of the stick and find they can't get out of it. I haven't seen any Hibs fans asking serious questions about that. After our Vlad experience, that's a worry.

10 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said:

Why are you bringing up FFP in that case?

As for identity in what will it change, we will still be Hibernian FC, a club that finishes third at best and sells our best players for peanuts usually.    How does a minimal percentage of the club indicate loss of control also?  Why on earth would the Gordons, the majority shareholders let them tell them what to do?   

Vlad sheep mode is shiting yourselves over saying anything to upset Budge in case Anderson stops gifting the club money btw. 

LAst time with the FFP, mate. Bournemouth and Lorient need to stay within it to avoid domestic sanctions. You're going to see money move between them as is required as accounting periods shift. Hibs don't have the same requirement. Don't drop your popcorn in shock if you find Hibs get the bad end of that deal. Again, this is quite an obvious point, but no Hibbies seem to be asking about it.

The identity is a personal thing. I've explained what I think. I think it's beneath Hibs to be subservient to another club. If it was my cub, I'd have no part of it.

I think we've interacted on here enough for you to have a general idea of what my genuine views on fitba are. I can honestly say I'd be binning Hearts if this was us. And it may be us in a few years, McKinlay mentioned it at the AGM today. I'd be finished with it, and I think those I interact with on here know that's not a partisan point, it's entirely consistent with the views I have on fitba that I bore you all with. I don't think you'll ever find a post of mine that would suggest I'd be for this in any way.

Anyway, have fun lads. I've made my points and we're going in circles now. I honestly, and with grudging respect for Hibernian as our rivals and part of our biggest game of the season, hope this doesn't end up an absolute nightmare for you. But I think that as a support you're all in danger of avoiding the big obvious questions, and given that your main owners just now are the foreign family of your previous buyer who has passed away (and they may not be as committed as he), I'd be genuinely concerned that a deal that suits them may not necessarily suit hibs long-term.

I hope Hearts pump you all the time, but I don't want to see you Rangersed.

Hugs and kisses, lads.

Edited December 14, 2023 by VincentGuerin

[Lofarl]

2 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Mate, honestly, I hate seeing people make this point. The difference is clear. As it stands we are all way down the pecking order, but we have an element of control. Hibs didn't sell to Celtic with McGinn because they never stumped up the cash. You control when you sell, to as much extent as anyone else, and you control who you sell to, and when you don't sell because it's not worth it. This will not be the case in your relationship with Bournemouth.

The investment will be a bad thing if Hibs end up continually getting the shitty end of the stick and find they can't get out of it. I haven't seen any Hibs fans asking serious questions about that. After our Vlad experience, that's a worry.

LAst time with the FFP, mate. Bournemouth and Lorient need to stay within it to avoid domestic sanctions. You're going to see money move between them as is required as accounting periods shift. Hibs don't have the same requirement. Don't drop your popcorn in shock if you find Hibs get the bad end of that deal. Again, this is quite an obvious point, but no Hibbies seem to be asking about it.

The identity is a personal thing. I've explained what I think. I think it's beneath Hibs to be subservient to another club. If it was my cub, I'd have no part of it.

I think we've interacted on here enough for you to have a general idea of what my genuine views on fitba are. I can honestly say I'd be binning Hearts if this was us. And it may be us in a few years, McKinlay mentioned it at the AGM today. I'd be finished with it, and I think those I interact with on here know that's not a partisan point, it's entirely consistent with the views I have on fitba that I bore you all with. I don't think you'll ever find a post of mine that would suggest I'd be for this in any way.

Anyway, have fun lads. I've made my points and we're going in circles now. I honestly, and with grudging respect for Hibernian as our rivals and part of our biggest game of the season, hope this doesn't end up an absolute nightmare for you. But I think that as a support you're all in danger of avoiding the big obvious questions, and given that your main owners just now are the foreign family of your previous buyer, I'd be genuinely concerned that a deal that suits them may not necessarily suit hibs long-term.

I hope Hearts pump you all the time, but I don't want to see you Rangersed.

Hugs and kisses, lads.

Righto cheerio pal.

[Hoose Rice]

7 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Mate, honestly, I hate seeing people make this point. The difference is clear. As it stands we are all way down the pecking order, but we have an element of control. Hibs didn't sell to Celtic with McGinn because they never stumped up the cash. You control when you sell, to as much extent as anyone else, and you control who you sell to, and when you don't sell because it's not worth it. This will not be the case in your relationship with Bournemouth.

The investment will be a bad thing if Hibs end up continually getting the shitty end of the stick and find they can't get out of it. I haven't seen any Hibs fans asking serious questions about that. After our Vlad experience, that's a worry.

LAst time with the FFP, mate. Bournemouth and Lorient need to stay within it to avoid domestic sanctions. You're going to see money move between them as is required as accounting periods shift. Hibs don't have the same requirement. Don't drop your popcorn in shock if you find Hibs get the bad end of that deal. Again, this is quite an obvious point, but no Hibbies seem to be asking about it.

The identity is a personal thing. I've explained what I think. I think it's beneath Hibs to be subservient to another club. If it was my cub, I'd have no part of it.

I think we've interacted on here enough for you to have a general idea of what my genuine views on fitba are. I can honestly say I'd be binning Hearts if this was us. And it may be us in a few years, McKinlay mentioned it at the AGM today. I'd be finished with it, and I think those I interact with on here know that's not a partisan point, it's entirely consistent with the views I have on fitba that I bore you all with. I don't think you'll ever find a post of mine that would suggest I'd be for this in any way.

Anyway, have fun lads. I've made my points and we're going in circles now. I honestly, and with grudging respect for Hibernian as our rivals and part of our biggest game of the season, hope this doesn't end up an absolute nightmare for you. But I think that as a support you're all in danger of avoiding the big obvious questions, and given that your main owners just now are the foreign family of your previous buyer who has passed away (and they may not be as committed as he), I'd be genuinely concerned that a deal that suits them may not necessarily suit hibs long-term.

I hope Hearts pump you all the time, but I don't want to see you Rangersed.

Hugs and kisses, lads.

Have a good Christmas matey.  You're a top man in my eyes. 

[Zing.]

Is there even any chance of this Foley character getting full control of the club? Sure Ashley tried it with Rangers and the SFA blocked it years ago.

Theres absolutely f**k all any normal fan can do to stop this investment happening so we just need to buckle in and hope it works out well. Of course the large majority will be searching for the positives.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Zing.

[RandomGuy.]

31 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I've never said he'll want Hibs to be bad. I'm saying Hibs are locking themselves into a situation where they are at best third in the priority list.

These multi club groups have multiple "2nd tier" clubs "feeding" the main club. Hibs will be seen as similar to Lorient and not subservient to them. Id be stunned if the group doesnt try and buy an Australian/Asian side who are the "3rd tier" of club, and whos best talents are taken to either Hibs or Lorient to prove themselves worthy of the EPL.

You see it with both Red Bull and City group sides. The 2nd tier sides are given huge amounts of backing to improve their infrastructure/facilities. Theyre not seen as a "feeder" club at all, but seen as a proving ground for the top talents. RB Salzburg the best example. The very best prospects in the Red Bull system are put in there before reaching Leipzig, but thats not solely the players Salzburg sign and they arent forced intp using them, its up to the player to prove they deserve a step up the ladder.

I just dont see any difference between Hibs looking at bringing in players to develop then sell to Bournemouth as any Scottish team trying to sell to the EPL, and the only argument youve made against it is some fantasised arrangement where Hibs have players forced upon them that no (competent) multi-club group does, and that has no basis in reality based on how Bournemouth/Lorient have interacted so far. Lorient got great market value for their sale to Bournemouth, and the Red Bull sides do similar, as its within their interests to not undersell players.

[Hoose Rice]

13 minutes ago, Zing. said:

Is there even any chance of this Foley character getting full control of the club? Sure Ashley tried it with Rangers and the SFA blocked it years ago.

Theres absolutely f**k all any normal fan can do to stop this investment happening so we just need to buckle in and hope it works out well. Of course the large majority will be searching for the positives.

I think that ultimately may be why we are having meetings with the SFA.

Interestingly, McKinley the hearts ceo and part of the SFA board said today to the minions at the agm that it could be the way ahead for them too. 

[Zing.]

7 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

These multi club groups have multiple "2nd tier" clubs "feeding" the main club. Hibs will be seen as similar to Lorient and not subservient to them. Id be stunned if the group doesnt try and buy an Australian/Asian side who are the "3rd tier" of club, and whos best talents are taken to either Hibs or Lorient to prove themselves worthy of the EPL.

You see it with both Red Bull and City group sides. The 2nd tier sides are given huge amounts of backing to improve their infrastructure/facilities. Theyre not seen as a "feeder" club at all, but seen as a proving ground for the top talents. RB Salzburg the best example. The very best prospects in the Red Bull system are put in there before reaching Leipzig, but thats not solely the players Salzburg sign and they arent forced intp using them, its up to the player to prove they deserve a step up the ladder.

I just dont see any difference between Hibs looking at bringing in players to develop then sell to Bournemouth as any Scottish team trying to sell to the EPL, and the only argument youve made against it is some fantasised arrangement where Hibs have players forced upon them that no (competent) multi-club group does, and that has no basis in reality based on how Bournemouth/Lorient have interacted so far. Lorient got great market value for their sale to Bournemouth, and the Red Bull sides do similar, as its within their interests to not undersell players.

Sure he’s already done so with Auckland.

[Judy Murray]

2 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Mate, honestly, I hate seeing people make this point. The difference is clear. As it stands we are all way down the pecking order, but we have an element of control. Hibs didn't sell to Celtic with McGinn because they never stumped up the cash. You control when you sell, to as much extent as anyone else, and you control who you sell to, and when you don't sell because it's not worth it. This will not be the case in your relationship with Bournemouth.

The investment will be a bad thing if Hibs end up continually getting the shitty end of the stick and find they can't get out of it. I haven't seen any Hibs fans asking serious questions about that. After our Vlad experience, that's a worry.

LAst time with the FFP, mate. Bournemouth and Lorient need to stay within it to avoid domestic sanctions. You're going to see money move between them as is required as accounting periods shift. Hibs don't have the same requirement. Don't drop your popcorn in shock if you find Hibs get the bad end of that deal. Again, this is quite an obvious point, but no Hibbies seem to be asking about it.

The identity is a personal thing. I've explained what I think. I think it's beneath Hibs to be subservient to another club. If it was my cub, I'd have no part of it.

I think we've interacted on here enough for you to have a general idea of what my genuine views on fitba are. I can honestly say I'd be binning Hearts if this was us. And it may be us in a few years, McKinlay mentioned it at the AGM today. I'd be finished with it, and I think those I interact with on here know that's not a partisan point, it's entirely consistent with the views I have on fitba that I bore you all with. I don't think you'll ever find a post of mine that would suggest I'd be for this in any way.

Anyway, have fun lads. I've made my points and we're going in circles now. I honestly, and with grudging respect for Hibernian as our rivals and part of our biggest game of the season, hope this doesn't end up an absolute nightmare for you. But I think that as a support you're all in danger of avoiding the big obvious questions, and given that your main owners just now are the foreign family of your previous buyer who has passed away (and they may not be as committed as he), I'd be genuinely concerned that a deal that suits them may not necessarily suit hibs long-term.

I hope Hearts pump you all the time, but I don't want to see you Rangersed.

Hugs and kisses, lads.

I didn’t read this post but it’s an absolute minter nonetheless

[JamesM82]

Andrew McKinlay is "Vincent Guerin" and I claim my £10 prize.