The DUP

[The Golden God]

No one involved or convicted in terrorist activities should have been allowed near government. McGuiness a culprit in chief ffs! Aside the fact SFira refused to take the oath nor their seats in the UK Parliament says a lot. 
A great foundation for democracy not! Blackmail and intimidation rules continue to lever the Republican case and that dopey c**t Boris only added insult to injury. The only faction I have seen making any gains since the GFA are the nationalist/republicans. 
In ten years are we looking at a unified Ireland? I get the impression that Boris would be happy to get rid. 
A sad state of affairs. 

50 years ago the British army were killing the people the “SFIra” represent on the streets in cold blood and today the British government are saying they’re not going to anything about it so I think it’d quite obvious why they don’t take their seats.

[Jeff Venom]

The British state isn’t interested in these cases being prosecuted fully because it’s really obvious their grubby fingers will be involved much deeper than a lot of people are willing to admit. It wouldn’t be surprising if it was the same albeit less intensively involved in a lot of loyalist paramilitary violence

Things like the Military Reaction Force were brought into the public domain via Panorama a number of years back, so perhaps there'd also be more digging in and around that which could be rather uncomfortable for the UK.

[Jeff Venom]

Most unionists see Irish unification as an existential threat to their way of life. 

Which is rich considering centuries of English/British invasion and colonialism.
*of Ireland

[BlueBear]

13 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Here’s hoping.

27 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

There is no chance of any of the "truth and reconciliation" stuff in NI delivering anything but further death and mayhem.  Anyone "fessing up", or implicating anyone else, would be toast within a fortnight. You only have to look at the attitudes of the unionist and nationalist "communities" in Scotland to see that we are miles away from either side being remotely interested in putting the past behind them. 

I'm no expert, but I remember the times of change South Africa; truth and reconciliation worked, at least to some extent, because both sides recoginsed that their country was going down the toilet and faced international condemnation because of apartheid.  However, at least most of the folk there on both "sides" appeared to be of the view that SA was 'a' country and some folk gave up a lot to try to make the future better.  In NI, there's probably a much closer split in the population; a population that can't even agree about whether they want to be Irish or British. The first opinion poll info I found gave a 43/51 Ireland/UK preference.  ( https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/03/how-could-a-vote-on-the-unification-of-ireland-play-out) 

Most unionists see Irish unification as an existential threat to their way of life.  Some nationalists view the past as an armed struggle against an occupying force.  There's no middle ground. 

NI is a modern European tragedy. 

 

Sadly the RSA pretty much now a failed state being corrupt to the core. The ideals of Mandela trashed by his own. Conditions now worse than ever. Reconciliation didn't deliver the desired result. 

Where there is mass poverty there is no unity or peace 

Where there is true and shred wealth there is harmony and common purpose. Sadly not much of that around in the so called anglophile democracies, as nation states and their populous create the largest debt mountains ever recorded. Trickle down now dried up, as the 1% hoover up what's left of of a nations wealth. 

Someone has to pay, but it won't be the 1%.

Bad times ahead, worse than the great depression. Covid will be a tea party by comparison. 

As for NI, unification imo will bring war and little else, such is the division. It even fester away in this backwater, with Scotland hosting many of the Irish "friendly" societies. Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining! 

Sadly your average Brit still harbour the Empire mentality. Engendered of late by that p***k Boris. Self entitled arrogant picks for the most part and of course. Just look at the little Englanders at Wembley. Republicans aren't for forgetting either, nor gone away. So f**k knows how one gets such polarised sides to come together. 

 

[BlueBear]

15 minutes ago, The Golden God said:

 

50 years ago the British army were killing the people the “SFIra” represent on the streets in cold blood and today the British government are saying they’re not going to anything about it so I think it’d quite obvious why they don’t take their seats.

 

You miss the point. Aside the fact none of them should have been allowed to stand. Another f**k up by war criminal Blair. 

This is cultural, way back before any paras on Bloody Sunday. Such is only a symptom of the real problem. 

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, The Golden God said:

 

50 years ago the British army were killing the people the “SFIra” represent on the streets in cold blood and today the British government are saying they’re not going to anything about it so I think it’d quite obvious why they don’t take their seats.

 

That would have been 1971. How many people were killed in cold blood in that year? I make it a shockingly high 22 out of 171.

Here's a couple of sites to look at https://belfastchildis.com/lost-lives/the-troubles-1969-1998-statistical-breakdown-of-deaths-in-the-troubles/

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/sutton/chron/1971.html

What was their excuse for not taking their seats in Leinster House, then?

[welshbairn]

DUP are demanding a say in drawing up and amending the Single Market rules, ie representation in Brussels. Unlikely they'll get it, but if they manage to get full and free access to both the EU and the UK markets it will establish an excellent precedent for Scotland to follow.

http://www.mydup.com/news/dup-leader-announces-seven-tests-for-hmg-plans-on-ni-protocol

[Jacksgranda]

44 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

DUP are demanding a say in drawing up and amending the Single Market rules, ie representation in Brussels. Unlikely they'll get it, but if they manage to get full and free access to both the EU and the UK markets it will establish an excellent precedent for Scotland to follow.

http://www.mydup.com/news/dup-leader-announces-seven-tests-for-hmg-plans-on-ni-protocol

How?

ETA: Do you mean in the event of independence and Scotland rejoining the EU? I still can't see it.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Jacksgranda

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

How?

ETA: Do you mean in the event of independence and Scotland rejoining the EU? I still can't see it.

It would just give those campaigning for independence an answer to those who say we couldn't have free borders with both the EU and the UK, and Hadrian's wall would need an upgrade. I wish the DUP all the best in their negotiations.

[Jacksgranda]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

It would just give those campaigning for independence an answer to those who say we couldn't have free borders with both the EU and the UK, and Hadrian's wall would need an upgrade. I wish the DUP all the best in their negotiations.

NI are seeking "free borders" - which we won't get - because we are still part of the UK. An independent Scotland won't be.

[welshbairn]

Just now, Jacksgranda said:

NI are seeking "free borders" - which we won't get - because we are still part of the UK. An independent Scotland won't be.

Same difference. We want to be part of the EU and not the UK, NI want the reverse but all the benefits of the EU, they'd be daft not to. If they can haggle a deal it gives us a template. Liechtenstein has a similar deal with Switzerland and the EU. I think it's great that the DUP want NI to be a participating member of the EU Single Market, they're realising that allying themselves with the ERG and Boris was maybe not such a great idea after all.

[LongTimeLurker]

23 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

That would have been 1971...

One out of Bloody Sunday and Bloody Friday in 1972 was premeditated mass murder rather than a monumental cockup and breakdown of command and control. Strangely it's the one that hasn't been turned into a cause celebre by the international media.

[GordonS]

On 15/07/2021 at 19:03, welshbairn said:

Same difference. We want to be part of the EU and not the UK, NI want the reverse but all the benefits of the EU, 

In fairness NI wants to be in the EU, it's the DUP that doesn't. 56% voted Remain.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

One out of Bloody Sunday and Bloody Friday in 1972 was premeditated mass murder rather than a monumental cockup and breakdown of command and control. Strangely it's the one that hasn't been turned into a cause celebre by the international media.

It's not just Sinn Fein who don't want there to be any further digging regards Bloody Friday.

The Security Services don't either.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 15/07/2021 at 13:28, Jacksgranda said:

..."I made the Claudy bomb."...

You know what that's all about and I know what that's all about but the BBC and others have not included it in the narrative that has shaped the general collective memory across the UK. Almost half a century on Fr James Chesney isn't around any more to publicly confess to his involvement and how and why his alleged role was covered up is not going to be the subject of a high profile public inquiry as it's still too hot to handle even now.

Kathryn Eakin aged 9 cleaning the window of her family's shop and the other eight victims of the Provos (and the prominent figures from the other side of the border that had encouraged and facilitated their emergence) that day are therefore largely forgotten while people with a one-sided identity politics agenda and a penchant for highly selective moral outrage still drone on and on relentlessly about Bloody Sunday as if it's the only thing that happened during the Troubles.

[Jacksgranda]

4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

You know what that's all about and I know what that's all about but the BBC and others have not included it in the narrative that has shaped the general collective memory across the UK. Almost half a century on Fr James Chesney isn't around any more to publicly confess to his involvement and how and why his alleged role was covered up is not going to be the subject of a high profile public inquiry as it's still too hot to handle even now.

Kathryn Eakin aged 9 cleaning the window of her family's shop and the other eight victims of the Provos (and the prominent figures from the other side of the border that had encouraged and facilitated their emergence) that day are therefore largely forgotten while people with a one-sided identity politics agenda and a penchant for highly selective moral outrage still drone on and on relentlessly about Bloody Sunday as if it's the only thing that happened during the Troubles.

I know her extended family well, her cousin was an usher at my wedding.

Another one that's never mentioned is the Railway Road bombing in Coleraine, although McGlinchey - mad dog's brother - was convicted for that one. Now he's a "highly respected" politician and a former mayor of Limavady Borough Council. 

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/sean-mcglinchey-bomb-victim-fury-man-injured-in-massacre-hits-out-at-sinn-fein-councillors-proud-ex-ira-boast-31559177.html

[GordonS]

Just now, WhiteLight said:

The 56% may get their wish, but under a GFA unification referendum!

 Only a matter of when imo.

I can't see reunification happen in my lifetime. It's a nailed-on certainty that if it were a realistic possibility the loyalists would indulge in a massive terror campaign in the north and south, and that would be enough to get the Irish thinking they'd rather not bother. Polling shows that a majority would be against if it cost them more in taxes anyway, so imagine if the cost were bombs in O'Connell Street. 

[GordonS]

33 minutes ago, WhiteLight said:

That maybe, but the nationalists/SF are hitting very near the criteria in the GFA. They get the majority MLA and its goodnight Vienna.
I think its called democracy.

I wouldn't call it democracy, I'd call that majoritarianism. Northern Ireland is split almost down the middle between two communities that have had an on-off conflict for four centuries and it's more important that they learn to share it than what nation state it is theoretically bound by. It should never be the case there that one side gets all it wants, regardless of the other, just because there's slightly more of them. We've been down that road before.

In any case, the Good Friday Agreement says that reunification can only happen if a majority in the south want it too. I think if it came to it, in the midst of a loyalist bombing campaign, they'd vote against.

[Jacksgranda]

44 minutes ago, WhiteLight said:

That maybe, but the nationalists/SF are hitting very near the criteria in the GFA. They get the majority MLA and its goodnight Vienna.
I think its called democracy.

Apparently it wasn't democracy when the unionists had the majority.

[NotThePars]

Apparently it wasn't democracy when the unionists had the majority.

Probably because of all the gerrymandering, discrimination, and cracking heads you were doing