Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

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[SimonLichtie]

Okay, so unless I've got something wrong here (happy to be corrected by those who will know more than me) things sit as follows:

Tom Johnston, a number of years ago, was given some sort of surposid 'promise' by Stewart Regan that the juniors would join the pyramind at tier 6. At the time, Tom Johnson then refused to get involved in any sort of discussions/ entertain this possibility assuming his members had no interest (lol).

Now, a few years later and with Stewart Regan not in post anymore, Tom Johnston has very reluctently realised he needs to play ball and has assumed that the offer he received years ago from a man who is not there anymore still stands and now it suits him/ the members he wishes to take them up on it?

Everything seems to point towards Tom Johnston is going to go ahead and presume they can join at tier 6 still, and once he is laughed out of the building things are going to fall apart and clubs are going to have to individually apply to move over leagues. The juniors will then be left with regional leagues (one Tayside and one Fife/ Lothian in the East potentially?) with the clubs who wish to stay junior by the sounds of it.

The SJFA can't even organise proper fixture lists, STILL, even after clubs voted for them to do so they're still fucking useless at doing the basics, correct?

I know i'm an outsider to this, but from where I'm sitting there is absolutely no chance TJ or any of his cronies can possibly manage this properly and their thoughts on how the intergration will work are miles off reality.

[HTG]

9 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

Okay, so unless I've got something wrong here (happy to be corrected by those who will know more than me) things sit as follows:

Tom Johnston, a number of years ago, was given some sort of surposid 'promise' by Stewart Regan that the juniors would join the pyramind at tier 6. At the time, Tom Johnson then refused to get involved in any sort of discussions/ entertain this possibility assuming his members had no interest (lol).

Now, a few years later and with Stewart Regan not in post anymore, Tom Johnston has very reluctently realised he needs to play ball and has assumed that the offer he received years ago from a man who is not there anymore still stands and now it suits him/ the members he wishes to take them up on it?

I'm not going to offer any view on the meeting. But this assumption is incorrect based on what was said last night. 

[bendan]

To be fair, it shouldn't be difficult to have the juniors move over at tier 6 in the West and North, though the issue of where the SoSL sits needs to be considered and the HFL have to accept promotion/relegation. In the East it's a lot more messy, and by the sounds of things, an amicable agreement between the EoS and SJFA East might not be easy to achieve.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Okay, so unless I've got something wrong here (happy to be corrected by those who will know more than me) things sit as follows:
Tom Johnston, a number of years ago, was given some sort of surposid 'promise' by Stewart Regan that the juniors would join the pyramind at tier 6. At the time, Tom Johnson then refused to get involved in any sort of discussions/ entertain this possibility assuming his members had no interest (lol).
Now, a few years later and with Stewart Regan not in post anymore, Tom Johnston has very reluctently realised he needs to play ball and has assumed that the offer he received years ago from a man who is not there anymore still stands and now it suits him/ the members he wishes to take them up on it?
Everything seems to point towards Tom Johnston is going to go ahead and presume they can join at tier 6 still, and once he is laughed out of the building things are going to fall apart and clubs are going to have to individually apply to move over leagues. The juniors will then be left with regional leagues (one Tayside and one Fife/ Lothian in the East potentially?) with the clubs who wish to stay junior by the sounds of it.
The SJFA can't even organise proper fixture lists, STILL, even after clubs voted for them to do so they're still fucking useless at doing the basics, correct?
I know i'm an outsider to this, but from where I'm sitting there is absolutely no chance TJ or any of his cronies can possibly manage this properly and their thoughts on how the intergration will work are miles off reality.

The fixtures fiasco in the west clearly shows the SJFA are incapable of administrating a league/region which would be clearly finished in order to allow for integration into the senior leagues. It is perfectly clear that they have no appetite to enforce their own constitution despite it only coming into play last year with very clear expectations laid out. So given all this how can they make a legitimate claim to be the best people to administrate over the base of the pyramid?
If clubs want to remain junior let them, really, let them, im sure at a regional basis in Ayrshire, Fife, Tayside and Northern they will continue as normal and these seem to be the areas with the biggest opposition, so just keep it junior there and invite applications for a wosl system. I feel the best placed to take the lead would be teams like the Buffs, Troon and Maryhill etc who have the experience of running teams at various levels, with many having youth set ups and seem to be strong sensible voices on the matter. The eosl have said they will assist in the set up of the league and that would make it a pretty seamless process. That way junior football continues as is, no clubs are forced to apply for anything they don’t want to and the other clubs can decide amongst themselves the best way forward.

[Fife Journeyman]

What baffles me is and nothing really to do with  this paticular discussion but junior clubs cant play under lights midweek in the winter to possibly catch up on fixtures for reasons i dont know yet Linlithgow were allowed to  have 2.30pm  kick offs  through the winter under lights and are also kicking off at 7.30 v Lochore next week  when other games are 6.45.

would love someone in the know to explain that one.

[Burnie_man]

15 minutes ago, HTG said:

I'm not going to offer any view on the meeting. But this assumption is incorrect based on what was said last night. 

Nobody at the SFA has promised tier 6 entry even the survey documentation didn’t claim that, just that the SFA (ie Regan) “support” inclusion at tier 6 and even then you need to take that with a healthy dose of scepticism given who wrote it. Regan has also now departed the scene with only an acting CEO in place.

From what I understand, the main action point from last night was  1.  Write to the SFA.  There was no 2.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Burnie_man

[HTG]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Nobody at the SFA has promised tier 6 entry even the survey documentation didn’t claim that, just that the SFA (ie Regan) “support” inclusion at tier 6 and even then you need to take that with a healthy dose of scepticism given who wrote it. Regan has also now departed the scene with only an acting CEO in place.

From what I understand, the main action point from last night was  1.  Write to the SFA.  There was no 2.

The point I was responding to was whether the SJFA were using a conversation from 6 years ago. They were not.  That's all I wanted to clarify to a post starting with "okay so unless I've got something wrong here". That was and is incorrect. The conversation was much more recent. 

[superbigal]

Evidently not [emoji2]

The meeting sounds just exactly like I would expect it to be, a touch of Whaes Like Us, a healthy dose of scaremongering over the SFA Licence, and disparaging comments towards the EoS. It's the TJ playbook, I hear we even got Larry the Lamb from Lochee going on about the Forfar wage bill, surprised he never pulled the £150k toilet card out if his back pocket like the old days.

If TJ really claimed the EoS canvassed Junior clubs with regards to joining then he is lying.

No problem with signing on fees for Fabian cabbalero for laz though [emoji32]

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, HTG said:

The point I was responding to was whether the SJFA were using a conversation from 6 years ago. They were not.  That's all I wanted to clarify to a post starting with "okay so unless I've got something wrong here". That was and is incorrect. The conversation was much more recent. 

Correct, it's not from 6 years ago that's for certain.  Never-the-less it's not an assurance I would hang my hat on.

[Auld Heid]

1 hour ago, Fife Journeyman said:

What baffles me is and nothing really to do with  this paticular discussion but junior clubs cant play under lights midweek in the winter to possibly catch up on fixtures for reasons i dont know yet Linlithgow were allowed to  have 2.30pm  kick offs  through the winter under lights and are also kicking off at 7.30 v Lochore next week  when other games are 6.45.

would love someone in the know to explain that one.

It baffles most people - the original logic was lights gave the home team an unfair advantage (yes I know how stupid that sounds).  A few teams moving have lights - can't recall them playing many if any competitive games under them. 

Our 1st mid-week game is scheduled for 6.45 says it all really.

 

[MEADOWXI]

13 hours ago, EdTheDuck said:

I've read a lot of this thread but there is a helluva lot of it so I may have missed this but am I right in thinking the Highland League pyramid would consist of the North Juniors and the Tayside Juniors? And is there any indication which, if any, of said Juniors (other than Banks o' Dee) are interested in joining the pyramid in the immediate future? In the event the old boys in the HFL are persuaded to  actually join the 21st century of course.

It is a pity that the North is mostly being ignored, as it regional feeders below the HFL should work (with teams having the the ability to not take promotion to the HFL till criteria met)

The Highland League has 18 teams just now (10 are from Highlands/Moray and 8 are Aberdeen City & Shire)

The leagues below would need to be regionalised, West League (Highland/Moray) and East League (Aberdeen City& Shire/North Tayside)

The Juniors just now  for West League - 9, but the North Caledonian could go below this with the top 3 making it a league of 12.

The Juniors just now  for East League - 23 (one of these is Montrose Roselea from Angus. Add in the the rest of the Angus teams gets to 28) Seeing a East 1st and 2nd of 16/12 or 14/14

 

Maybe if the SFA had procatively worked with the SJFA and the HFL to make it work there it could have set an example.

[PatP]

9 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

It baffles most people - the original logic was lights gave the home team an unfair advantage (yes I know how stupid that sounds).  A few teams moving have lights - can't recall them playing many if any competitive games under them. 

Our 1st mid-week game is scheduled for 6.45 says it all really.

 

It’s scheduled for 7.30. Please try and keep up. 

[Auld Heid]

23 minutes ago, PatP said:

It’s scheduled for 7.30. Please try and keep up. 

Where was this advertised as only seen the original timing? (good news though)

[lithgierose]

Was there representatives from every east region club at the meeting ?

[Jason King]

11 minutes ago, lithgierose said:

Was there representatives from every east region club at the meeting ?

As was made clear above, no.

[EdTheDuck]

51 minutes ago, MEADOWXI said:

It is a pity that the North is mostly being ignored, as it regional feeders below the HFL should work (with teams having the the ability to not take promotion to the HFL till criteria met)

The Highland League has 18 teams just now (10 are from Highlands/Moray and 8 are Aberdeen City & Shire)

The leagues below would need to be regionalised, West League (Highland/Moray) and East League (Aberdeen City& Shire/North Tayside)

The Juniors just now  for West League - 9, but the North Caledonian could go below this with the top 3 making it a league of 12.

The Juniors just now  for East League - 23 (one of these is Montrose Roselea from Angus. Add in the the rest of the Angus teams gets to 28) Seeing a East 1st and 2nd of 16/12 or 14/14

 

Maybe if the SFA had procatively worked with the SJFA and the HFL to make it work there it could have set an example.

I think this could reboot (some of) the North Juniors. If you still live in the NE, you’ll be aware the Juniors here are largely glorified amateurs and get very little in the way of local media coverage, pretty much because they are overshadowed by the HFL.

However, there are clubs with significant potential: Ellon, Culter, Stonehaven, Dyce, Stoneywood-Parkvale and a few in Aberdeen City (not least Sunnybank FFS) who could definitely benefit from improved attention and an opportunity to climb the ladder, so to speak.

However, that lack of media coverage has also meant almost no P&J/EE or local radio coverage of the pyramid and its implications/possibilities for the Juniors so…y’know.

[I’m a celebrity]

For me I long for a return to the good old days of the old fife league when we were being visited by Haws, Kelty, Glens, St Andrews etc all local derbies which got the fans through the gates as this is when junior football certainly for me in fife was most competive.

Don’t get me wrong I loved it when we were part of the super league rubbing shoulders with the top junior sides but a rapid decline has seen us drop down to the south league and to be honest it’s not enjoyable watching us against West Calder harthill  stoneyburn etc etc it just isn’t the same.

junior football is in a rapid decline but having said that I just don’t see the benefit in us moving to a pyramid system.

For the ambitious clubs like Kelty who got the financial and infrastructure to push the club forward to compete with the ultimate goal of joining the SFL then fair play, but for clubs like ourselves I severely worry about the future.

[MEADOWXI]

I think this could reboot (some of) the North Juniors. If you still live in the NE, you’ll be aware the Juniors here are largely glorified amateurs and get very little in the way of local media coverage, pretty much because they are overshadowed by the HFL.

However, there are clubs with significant potential: Ellon, Culter, Stonehaven, Dyce, Stoneywood-Parkvale and a few in Aberdeen City (not least Sunnybank FFS) who could definitely benefit from improved attention and an opportunity to climb the ladder, so to speak.

However, that lack of media coverage has also meant almost no P&J/EE or local radio coverage of the pyramid and its implications/possibilities for the Juniors so…y’know.

Totally agree

In Aberdeen and the lack of coverage of the teams in the city never mind in the Shire in the P&J and EE is pitiful

East End will be crowned East Champs this week, probably, and back into the Superleague next season

Plenty to be positive about and a great opportunity to bring things together

[lithgierose]

9 minutes ago, Jason King said:

As was made clear above, no.

My finger is sore though.so just look at latest posts.using phone.