Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

15 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I'd imagine one of the main reasons why East Kilbride are part of the EoSFA is to provide some extra cup games throughout the season.  If a parallel WoSFA was set up and had their own version of the Football Nation Cup you'd imagine EK would move across to that anyway.

I think it just that. BSC and Cumbernauld Colts have at least one fewer game because they're not in. And yes, a new WoSL would likely have its own cups etc. 

I'm fairly MOR in terms of the pyramid, not quite take it or leave it but not a full on convert. There is so much potential if it's done right. Countrywide knockout cup for all teams outwith SPFL. SJFA currently has about 160 members. Add in 13 from SoS, 12 from EoS, 16 from LL and 18 from HFL, you'd have approx 220 teams competing. The potential additional teams are not enough to mean an extra round in the present Junior Cup format as we currently have 35 ties or so to give 2nd Rd of 128. The above would mean maybe 90 or so ties in R1 - less byes, more ties. 

Add in regional cups and maybe one legacy KO such as an Ayrshire or Central Cup, or in east the ones they retained, it's appealing.

Edited April 10, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Dead]

2 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Publishing crowds is mainly a journalistic tool and serves no real purpose other than a talking point.  At Bo'ness they now announce the crowd as quicker than announcing both teams.

I'm a football historian and along with teamlines and basic games stats I feel the recording of crowd (even estimates) help to better understand each club and where they stand with their own community at any given time. For me it is more the comparison for crowds year v year etc against our own club that means the most, then next how we are doing against similar club's. 

Fully understand if others aren't interested but I am  and I like to see even an approx of crowds in the juniors and non-league seniors . Though  I wont m use it as a tool against others.

[cmontheloknow]

6 minutes ago, Dead said:

I'm a football historian and along with teamlines and basic games stats I feel the recording of crowd (even estimates) help to better understand each club and where they stand with their own community at any given time. For me it is more the comparison for crowds year v year etc against our own club that means the most, then next how we are doing against similar club's. 

Fully understand if others aren't interested but I am  and I like to see even an approx of crowds in the juniors and non-league seniors . Though  I wont m use it as a tool against others.

It's really good the Shire website carries estimates, Dalbeattie's too. Not sure of too many otherss, Lok does (as I put them on!).

[Khufu2]

24 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Nobody has "undermined" anyone, this is "grade" syndrome again, we act as one or not at all. It's also highly disrespectful to those clubs who have taken the major decision to move, that option was open to every single club in the East.

I would place Blackburn United amongst the "mediocre clubs" I was mentioning. What tangible benefits do you think the club hopes to derive next season by switching from East Juniors to the EOSL? I can see why Bonnyrigg would move over, because like Kelty they probably have their sights on higher things,  but why Blackburn or Dalkeith? Had there not been this mass defection the chances of the East Juniors negotiating a level 6 status parallel to the EOSL would have been far greater than they are now.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Khufu2

[lithgierose]

9 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I would place Blackburn United amongst the "mediocre clubs" I was mentioning. What tangible benefits do you think the club hopes to derive next season by switching from East Juniors to the EOSL? I can see why Bonnyrigg would move over, because like Kelty they probably have their sights on higher things,  but why Blackburn or Dalkeith? Had there not been this mass defection the chances of the East Juniors negotiating a level 6 status parallel to the EOSL would have been far greater than they are now.

Any truth that dunipace are moving east ?

[Ginaro]

16 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I would place Blackburn United amongst the "mediocre clubs" I was mentioning. What tangible benefits do you think the club hopes to derive next season by switching from East Juniors to the EOSL? I can see why Bonnyrigg would move over, because like Kelty they probably have their sights on higher things,  but why Blackburn or Dalkeith? Had there not been this mass defection the chances of the East Juniors negotiating a level 6 status parallel to the EOSL would have been far greater than they are now.

You must join the pyramid if you wish to get an SFA Licence, which Blackburn and Dalkeith have both said they are doing.

17 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

The east is a mess because of the likely junior defections who have completely undermined the rest of the east juniors. (Maybe TJ will prevail at the last minute!). We now have the prospect of a few good teams,  several mediocre teams and  quite a few duff teams clogging up levels 6 and 7 by the start of 2019-20.  It's hard to see how the likes of Bo'ness and Linlithgow can hope to start at any level above level 7. I can see why it might be attractive for them to change allegiance to the west if there are no hard and fast boundaries. 

Next season will be the fifth year that the EoS has been a feeder to the Lowland League. If the likes of Linlithgow or other east Juniors have ambitions or didn't want to get left behind then they should have joined the EoS.

[Burnie_man]

12 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I would place Blackburn United amongst the "mediocre clubs" I was mentioning. What tangible benefits do you think the club hopes to derive next season by switching from East Juniors to the EOSL? I can see why Bonnyrigg would move over, because like Kelty they probably have their sights on higher things,  but why Blackburn or Dalkeith? Had there not been this mass defection the chances of the East Juniors negotiating a level 6 status parallel to the EOSL would have been far greater than they are now.

For someone only just joined with a handful of posts it's a strange way to enter the debate.  You can place us wherever you want in your mind.

SFA membership is a benefit to us, U20 development league is a benefit to us, fixture lists are a benefit to us, a better run league is a benefit to us, being part of Senior football is a benefit to us, Scottish Cup participation is a benefit to us. etc etc

All clubs should be thinking of their own circumstances and what helps them progress as a club on and off the pitch first and foremost, not hanging around due to some misplaced loyalty to the "grade".    We've been waiting 6 years and counting and with absolutely no guarantee anything will happen.

 

[Khufu2]

9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

For someone only just joined with a handful of posts it's a strange way to enter the debate.  You can place us wherever you want in your mind.

SFA membership is a benefit to us, U20 development league is a benefit to us, fixture lists are a benefit to us, a better run league is a benefit to us, being part of Senior football is a benefit to us, Scottish Cup participation is a benefit to us. etc etc

All clubs should be thinking of their own circumstances and what helps them progress as a club on and off the pitch first and foremost, not hanging around due to some misplaced loyalty to the "grade".    We've been waiting 6 years and counting and with absolutely no guarantee anything will happen.

 

I'm not sure what the relevance of just making a handful of posts is, but your club isn't up at the top, and it isn't down with the dross. It's in the middle. Mediocre. Unless there is a massive transformation it seems unlikely they will progress beyond level 6.

What you will lose is a programme of largely competitive matches, better crowds, the Scottish Junior Cup ... you won't be entering the Scottish Cup, with now, because of the numbers that will be involved, a minimal chance of getting as far as meeting giants like Albion Rovers, until you're licensed. A lot of the benefits of joining the senior pyramid are illusory.

I'm not critical of the pyramid, and I'm not blind to the imperfections in the Junior game but the assorted  East defectors haven't half messed up the potential for a rational East pyramid,

[AlanCamelonfan]

6 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I'm not sure what the relevance of just making a handful of posts is, but your club isn't up at the top, and it isn't down with the dross. It's in the middle. Mediocre. Unless there is a massive transformation it seems unlikely they will progress beyond level 6.

What you will lose is a programme of largely competitive matches, better crowds, the Scottish Junior Cup ... you won't be entering the Scottish Cup, with now, because of the numbers that will be involved, a minimal chance of getting as far as meeting giants like Albion Rovers, until you're licensed. A lot of the benefits of joining the senior pyramid are illusory.

I'm not critical of the pyramid, and I'm not blind to the imperfections in the Junior game but the assorted  East defectors haven't half messed up the potential for a rational East pyramid,

If we all agreed to go now you wouldn't have that problem 

[AlanCamelonfan]

48 minutes ago, lithgierose said:

Any truth that dunipace are moving east ?

They are going into eosfl

[WitsTheGoalieDain?]

Football is football, whether it be senior, junior or amateur. If you’re really that passionate about your club then you’ll support them at any level.

I personally think it’s always been about reaching your potential as a club, and having the ambition to become the best of the best. If the hard work and dedication is there, then ANY club can reach that status. None of this “mediocre” and “you’ll never progress above the 6th tier” pish.

[Burnie_man]

21 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I'm not sure what the relevance of just making a handful of posts is, but your club isn't up at the top, and it isn't down with the dross. It's in the middle. Mediocre. Unless there is a massive transformation it seems unlikely they will progress beyond level 6.

Interesting terminology, anyway.......

Quote

What you will lose is a programme of largely competitive matches, better crowds, the Scottish Junior Cup ... you won't be entering the Scottish Cup, with now, because of the numbers that will be involved, a minimal chance of getting as far as meeting giants like Albion Rovers, until you're licensed. A lot of the benefits of joining the senior pyramid are illusory.

Competitive matches - no we wont, we look at this long term, not short term.  With at least 10 Junior clubs moving and the top half of the EoS competitive, next season wont be much different to this season anyway.

Better crowds - what we lose against Whitburn and Bathgate we will replace with Bonnyrigg and Camelon, and long term we'll meet up with the former two again some day. We were a South Division club until last season therefore match day income has never been a significant part of the clubs funding, certainly not during my time on the committee.

Scottish Junior Cup - no loss, if we hadn't drawn Linlithgow this season, we would have made a loss on taking part in it.

Scottish Cup - We'll be licenced for season 2019-20.  If we ever met Albion Rovers, it would be at least the Second Round earning c. £10k

The benefits are obvious to those who are open to it.

Quote

I'm not critical of the pyramid, and I'm not blind to the imperfections in the Junior game but the assorted  East defectors haven't half messed up the potential for a rational East pyramid,

The East Pyramid is there for people to move to or not.  Not every East club will want to, and that has to be respected and they can stay under the umbrella of the SJFA outside of it. For the rest, they join the EoS.  If a big club has to join a level below where they think they should be, then they work their way up.  Long term thinking, not short term.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Burnie_man

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, GLENAFTON93 said:

I do not have to answer to you or anyone else or have any of my opinions vilified by the pro pyramid Junior haters, I have specific reasons for not posting on these topics, and reserve the right to red or green  dot , and unlike you don't go back weeks for a revenge red dot .

Go cry to Isa, he was the one moaning, but to troll though a thread on a subject you dislike and red dot people for no reason without ever commenting is truly pathetic behaviour.

[cmontheloknow]

28 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I'm not sure what the relevance of just making a handful of posts is, but your club isn't up at the top, and it isn't down with the dross. It's in the middle. Mediocre. Unless there is a massive transformation it seems unlikely they will progress beyond level 6.

What you will lose is a programme of largely competitive matches, better crowds, the Scottish Junior Cup ... you won't be entering the Scottish Cup, with now, because of the numbers that will be involved, a minimal chance of getting as far as meeting giants like Albion Rovers, until you're licensed. A lot of the benefits of joining the senior pyramid are illusory.

I'm not critical of the pyramid, and I'm not blind to the imperfections in the Junior game but the assorted  East defectors haven't half messed up the potential for a rational East pyramid,

Non-licenced clubs can qualify for the Scottish Cup by winning the East of Scotland League or by winning the new East/South Shield (the play-off cup for all non-licenced EoS and SoS clubs). The latter not too onerous for any half-decent side. The two winners thus far: Lothian Thistle HV and Tynecastle.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, gogsy said:

DOMINO LEAGUE TONIGHT IN THE DALE ..WHO WILL COME OUT ON TOP .THE CORRIE .CAVALIER OR COPPIES ....BIG BIG NIGHT OFF DOMZ

[The Mantis]

12 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Non-licenced clubs can qualify for the Scottish Cup by winning the East of Scotland League or by winning the new East/South Shield (the play-off cup for all non-licenced EoS and SoS clubs). The latter not too onerous for any half-decent side. The two winners thus far: Lothian Thistle HV and Tynecastle.

Also, as somebody pointed out, you won't need any more rounds than currently exist, to accommodate a load more teams in the Scottish. So even reaching Rd 1 where the HL and LL clubs come in isn't that hard, and once you're licensed you'll be only one game away from the dream tie against the Wee Rovers every year.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, GLENAFTON93 said:

Its  not pathetic behaviour , I have told you I have very specific reasons for not posting  , can you not just leave it at that, I have never brought your name up in any posts or comments I have made or make  , but again you bring my name up on a regular basis.  If I am upsetting you tough, I never get upset about any red/green dots I get I really don't care.

You red dot many of my posts on this subject regardless of content, that's pathetically weird behaviour.   If you red dot someone at least have the baws to tell them why, instead of sneaking around the thread on a subject you don't like.  Get a life in other words.

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, The Mantis said:

Also, as somebody pointed out, you won't need any more rounds than currently exist, to accommodate a load more teams in the Scottish. So even reaching Rd 1 where the HL and LL clubs come in isn't that hard, and once you're licensed you'll be only one game away from the dream tie against the Wee Rovers every year.

Has anyone worked out the maximum amount of additional clubs at R1 without needing to tinker? 

[Goalie Hamish]

You red dot many of my posts on this subject regardless of content, that's pathetically weird behaviour.   If you red dot someone at least have the baws to tell them why, instead of sneaking around the thread on a subject you don't like.  Get a life in other words.

No worth losing the rag ower Burnie he's probably Dipplebevvys cousin [emoji23] I've given you a few greenies to calm you doon

[Goalie Hamish]

Biggie meeting the night then, does anyone think it'll all end in a big stooshie