Junior football, what is the future?

[daleboy1969]

3 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

My team are in the LL at present. 

If I'm honest I'm not fussy what league they end up in now as, even if they "drift" down a league or two  we might now have a chance of some local games. 

It's not always aboot the money you keep blabbing on aboot. 

I don't think we'll ever be a mid table nomad no matter what league we are in as every season come September the Scottish Cup gives me or anyone else the excitement of maybes just maybes getting a decent draw against some of the giants of Scottish fitba. There's always the big disappointment of being pumped oot right enough but to me this is one highlight that trumps any junior cup glory.

Yes winning the junior Cup itself is some achievement but surely (at junior league level) the biggest honour is in winning either the East or West superleague. There is nowhere to go from there though whereas at least "drifting" around the EoSFL has space for going higher. 

The Juniors should've been integrated years ago into the pyramid system imo but seems yer man at the top made a right arse of it unfortunately. 

Read my post .I agree junior clubs should be part of the pyramid ( and will be) .I dissagee with clubs trying to move up without on field success . The lure off the pound has come from outside the junior game .cove and Spartans are what it's all about .nobody gets entry into the betfredcup because they have big changing rooms or nice toilets  .it's thru sporting achievement. 

[cmontheloknow]

4 minutes ago, daleboy1969 said:

Read my post .I agree junior clubs should be part of the pyramid ( and will be) .I dissagee with clubs trying to move up without on field success . The lure off the pound has come from outside the junior game .cove and Spartans are what it's all about .nobody gets entry into the betfredcup because they have big changing rooms or nice toilets  .it's thru sporting achievement. 

They're not moving 'up' though as the Juniors aren't 'down'.

They're moving INTO from OUTWITH.

Edited May 26, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[daleboy1969]

8 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Thing is though, there was always zero prospect of the East Region being in the pyramid at  a reasonably high level after the SJFA refused to get involved with the Lowland League. Any clubs wanting into the pyramid had to make this move. What was the alternative?

How many east region junior clubs were in a position to join the lowland league as off the end of last season ? 

[drs]

24 minutes ago, daleboy1969 said:

The argument that juniors don't want to join the pyramid is no longer .the clubs mentioned .kelty and bonnyrigg ALONG with the likes off linlithgow will be able to rise through the leagues on merit through on field success .( this should have been dealt with years ago) but clubs don't raise issues .they sit and moan in wee groups then in order to steel a march on others decide to move .they have merely done a sideways shuffle .most have a massive amount of work to do off the park in order to obtain a licence . The constant movement for closing applications date to the EOS should be subject to SFA investigation.  Continued CANVASSING off clubs to shift is ridiculous . 

#seething

[cmontheloknow]

8 minutes ago, daleboy1969 said:

How many east region junior clubs were in a position to join the lowland league as off the end of last season ? 

Junior clubs being in a position to join LL as of end of last season is an irelevance as the only way into it is via relegation from L2 or promotion from SoS/EoS, with a Club License in place. Any club wanting to get to the LL has to work their way there along a set path (of onfield and offfield steps).

The Lowland League eventually formed (and I say that as it was long debated, on here - and elsewhere much more formally) in 2013 by application. No SJFA sides applied despite Club Licensing not being required for the first few seasons. I do understand why though - the SJFA did not engage with the process of its formation despite having a representative involved in the Pyramid Working Group. "My members aren't interested" - told directly to national press. This meant there was no pathway back to the SJFA leagues should a club struggle or change their mind about the league's viability. If Kelty had gone then and decided 'no' they'd have rejoined the ERSJFA in the South division, a 3 division relegation. Waiting until it established itself was a sensible thing to do.

I'll say again, clubs cannot move up from the SJFA to the EoS - we're not below. We're a parallel universe. If clubs want into the pyramid this is the only current, viable route.

Edited May 26, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Robert James]

7 hours ago, th1stleandr0se said:

So why don't the hierarchies of Bo'ness and Linlithgow talk to each other and decide to go hand-in-hand to the EoS?  I'm sure they'd both see sense in going together.

Could the reason be that they both intend to join a new SJFA (Combined) Super League for West & (remaining) East Junior clubs ?

But will this 'proposal' be approved by ALL of the leading West clubs, or will some decide to opt for a 'senior' WoSL pyramid feeder league in 2019/20, if one is created ?  Just a thought............. The Junior AGM should be interesting.

[drs]

14 minutes ago, daleboy1969 said:

Read my post .I agree junior clubs should be part of the pyramid ( and will be) .I dissagee with clubs trying to move up without on field success . The lure off the pound has come from outside the junior game .cove and Spartans are what it's all about .nobody gets entry into the betfredcup because they have big changing rooms or nice toilets  .it's thru sporting achievement. 

So then, why aren't Armadale looking to move? A club that has been mediocre on the pitch for years, who play to a handful of spectators in a crumbling relic of a stadium - why aren't they interested in the lure of the pound?  What makes them want to stay in a dying league instead of embracing the opportunity to progress? What makes Armadale so staunch in its opposition to moving into the 21st century?

And you know what, the clubs that are moving if they do end up in the BetFred Cup they will have used those pounds that they have lured to help with sporting achievement. I really cant understand why the Armadale fans are so upset about clubs looking to improve their standing in the overall structure of Scottish Football.

[shuggie123]

14 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

On the bright side from a traditional big West Lothian derby standpoint, Whitburn could still finish above them. Getting a bit mental though that any team outside the east premier relegation zone will likely be in next year's superleague.

Whitburn don't deserve to be in the Superleague, and judging by this year's perfomances would be straight back down again. 

[Vollyman]

#seething

Childish

[Robert James]

23 minutes ago, drs said:

So then, why aren't Armadale looking to move? A club that has been mediocre on the pitch for years, who play to a handful of spectators in a crumbling relic of a stadium - why aren't they interested in the lure of the pound?  What makes them want to stay in a dying league instead of embracing the opportunity to progress? What makes Armadale so staunch in its opposition to moving into the 21st century?

And you know what, the clubs that are moving if they do end up in the BetFred Cup they will have used those pounds that they have lured to help with sporting achievement. I really cant understand why the Armadale fans are so upset about clubs looking to improve their standing in the overall structure of Scottish Football.

".....handful of spectators in a crumbling relic of a stadium...."

Perhaps Armadale consider a move to the pyramid is a bridge too far.  Clubs have the right to remain junior if they wish to do so.

[drs]

They do, but why are the fans so negative towards those moving on? Most of whom finished higher up the current structure than the Dale this season.

[Khufu2]

55 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Could the reason be that they both intend to join a new SJFA (Combined) Super League for West & (remaining) East Junior clubs ?

But will this 'proposal' be approved by ALL of the leading West clubs, or will some decide to opt for a 'senior' WoSL pyramid feeder league in 2019/20, if one is created ?  Just a thought............. The Junior AGM should be interesting.

Alternatively, the already strong West Juniors, enhanced by Bo’ness and Linlithgow can make an even stronger case for forming the tier 5 Lowland West in 2019-20 or 2020-21.  

Edited May 26, 2018 by Khufu2

[Robert James]

12 minutes ago, drs said:

They do, but why are the fans so negative towards those moving on? Most of whom finished higher up the current structure than the Dale this season.

Clubs moving on to the EoSL is positive.  Deciding to remain junior is also okay. 

There shouldn't be any negativity either way.  However like any 'divorce',   emotions around "blame" are aroused, especially leading up to the point of separation. 

Bill Shankly famously said : "Some people think that football is a matter of life and death, but (actually) it is far more important than that."

Whilst the junior/pyramid issue will take some time to calm down , things will hopefully get better (in 18 months time ?).  

 

[daleboy1969]

51 minutes ago, drs said:

So then, why aren't Armadale looking to move? A club that has been mediocre on the pitch for years, who play to a handful of spectators in a crumbling relic of a stadium - why aren't they interested in the lure of the pound?  What makes them want to stay in a dying league instead of embracing the opportunity to progress? What makes Armadale so staunch in its opposition to moving into the 21st century?

And you know what, the clubs that are moving if they do end up in the BetFred Cup they will have used those pounds that they have lured to help with sporting achievement. I really cant understand why the Armadale fans are so upset about clubs looking to improve their standing in the overall structure of Scottish Football.

Try reading posts . 

21st century in your opinion .

You guys are like the third reich. Movement should be as a result of sporting achievement and suitable ground standards . Linlithgow rose and auchinleck are good examples yet both these clubs choose to stay in the past according to your opinion . Strange indeed that almost all the clubs leaving don't mention sporting achievement. Strange indeed ..

[Vollyman]

They do, but why are the fans so negative towards those moving on? Most of whom finished higher up the current structure than the Dale this season.

Four of the clubs joining the EOS finished below Armadale this season. We are negative towards a system that allows clubs who have not earned the right to be introduced to tier 6 of the pyramid. While admitting the SJFA have mismanaged the situation the SFA has made a farce of the Pyramid system.

[Robert James]

4 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

5 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Alternatively, the already strong West Juniors, enhanced by Bo’ness and Linlithgow can make an even stronger case for forming the tier 5 Lowland West in 2019-20 or 2020-21.  

Alternatively, the already strong West Juniors, enhanced by Bo’ness and Linlithgow can make an even stronger case for forming the tier 5 Lowland West in 2019-20 or 2020-21.  

Won't happen at Tier 5. Even TJ accepts that.

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

And let's be honest the majority of teams heading to the beazer league looking for the pot of gold are not exactly top notch with the exception of Bonnyrigg . The state that league was in wouldn't need much to improve it.

I'd argue a few others but your contradicting your point. Bonnyrigg have the squad as they've reinvested the Hibs money from yes, you guessed it, a cash source outwith junior football.

That's is the carrot. Every team can improve through the luck of the draw.

[kefc]

4 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Alternatively, the already strong West Juniors, enhanced by Bo’ness and Linlithgow can make an even stronger case for forming the tier 5 Lowland West in 2019-20 or 2020-21.  

Never going to happen.

The SJFA don’t want the pyramid, the scaremongering going on at Junior meetings to other clubs are actually making clubs in the East move, it’s obvious they have no grasp or vision for the future. They had Les Donaldson from Linlithgow Rose speak at a meeting warning clubs off getting a licence, a guy pivotal in Linlithgow getting theirs which has let them improve their facilities, I mean really!!! Costs too much, too many hoops, need this need that, utter madness.

 

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Four of the clubs joining the EOS finished below Armadale this season. We are negative towards a system that allows clubs who have not earned the right to be introduced to tier 6 of the pyramid. 

You're not in the pyramid system so your complaints about how it's run can be filed immediately in the bin where they belong. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by vikingTON

[drs]

12 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Four of the clubs joining the EOS finished below Armadale this season. We are negative towards a system that allows clubs who have not earned the right to be introduced to tier 6 of the pyramid. While admitting the SJFA have mismanaged the situation the SFA has made a farce of the Pyramid system.

So MOST clubs moving are better placed than Armadale. "Not earned the right" what poppycock, all of the clubs moving have followed the appropriate procedures.