Junior football, what is the future?

[Guest]

Who knows. Only the clubs can answer. Probably a mixture of all of those things across the host of clubs in the West. Some who don't know what to do. Some who have good working relations with the sjfa. Some who fear the change will damage their income. Some who are fiercely loyal to the sjfa and others who probably couldn't care less. That all being said, there are clubs, more and more seemingly becoming interested the longer this goes on, who want to see how far they can progress in the pyramid structure. I hope we see a wosfl sooner rather than later.

[Tutankhamen]

Thought the West was joining the pyramid next summer.

[Guest]

? Unless I am unaware of that being announced, there is nothing guaranteed about the wrsjfa joining the pyramid.

[FairWeatherFan]

38 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Thought the West was joining the pyramid next summer.

The way it seems to stand is that the West & East Juniors (maybe North?) are trialling the new rules and regulations to prove that it all works on that front. Any change to the current Lowland League play-off (licensed EoS champion v. licensed SoS champion) for the 2020-21 season will have to be negotiated by 31st December 2019.

And the PWG probably won't meet again until September.

EDIT:

Maxwell's email regarding 2019-20

Edited June 8, 2019 by FairWeatherFan

[Tutankhamen]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The way it seems to stand is that the West & East Juniors (maybe North?) are trialling the new rules and regulations to prove that it all works on that front. Any change to the current Lowland League play-off (licensed EoS champion v. licensed SoS champion) for the 2020-21 season will have to be negotiated by 31st December 2019.

And the PWG probably won't meet again until September.

EDIT:

Maxwell's email regarding 2019-20

North and HL don't want to know, mate.

Makes we wonder how much you really know if you don't know that pretty basic information.

The equivalent would be an EoSL team dropping into the Juniors. It's a no brainer.

[santheman]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Since then the SFA were told by the HL and NRSJFA that they weren't interested on working on the pyramid and the ERSJFA opted for a split division format for 2019-20 despite being told by the SFA that only a 16 club single division could be accepted at tier 6. Don't doubt that the WRSJFA still wants in but subsequent events suggest that it's not at all clear that the other two regions do and that makes the posture of keeping the SJFA intact on pyramid entry a non-starter even before issues like the Tayside boundary problem and EoS/LL opposition to a second east tier 6 feeder get added to the mix.

If I was a betting man I would put money on the AGM passing with a few dissenting voices but nothing substantial to force the issue. 

I think you'll find that some in the WRJFA want in but the vast majority articularly the lower league clubs couldn't really give a toss one way or another so if there was a vote I reckon that TJ will be told to act on the original mandate until the SFA tell him that it's not going to happen.

Then you  MIGHT get some clubs breaking away  to form a WOSL league because they dont want to wait indefinitely for things to progress.

Then you're left with  a much reduced SJFA but still encompassing the 3 regions.

Then you're left with a WOSL with possible promotion to the LL but with no relegation unless they revert back to the remaining Junior Leagues.

[pipedreamer]

4 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

Who says they haven’t accepted that it won’t happen with the current all in mandate? How do you know the SFA will allow a new league to be created? Where should these clubs that move to? There were options on in the East for clubs to move too; there isint in the west. The sfa could have end all the debate when the made their announcements regarding next season, but they didn’t. Is that a tacit approval that they want the west in as is? I still believe the the only way out of this mess is for a WOSFL from season 2020/21 but that will need the sfa to sanction a new league and if they really wanted that they would do it.

As I have said before junior clubs did express an interest in joining the pyramid and it seems the Lowland League/EOSFL want to rewrite history to suit their own narrative by saying there wasn’t.

 

Was the talk at the time that junior clubs who did leave for the new Lowland League were told that if they were relegated from the league they would need to apply to the sjfa and start at the bottom division again. 

[Black Pennel]

Happy Birthday to the "going round in circles" thread !!!

Many happy returns. 

[FairWeatherFan]

8 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

North and HL don't want to know, mate.

Makes we wonder how much you really know if you don't know that pretty basic information.

The equivalent would be an EoSL team dropping into the Juniors. It's a no brainer.

I never said anything about North and Highland together. Which is why I'm not even sure the North is to be included in trialling of the new rules and regulations.

The reason for North's inclusion has nothing to do with pyramid integration. Rather it's easier for the SJFA to adopt the SFA set of rules as uniform across all 3 regions. Simpler for them to do that than juggle two.

Edited June 9, 2019 by FairWeatherFan

[AlanCamelonfan]

8 hours ago, pipedreamer said:

Was the talk at the time that junior clubs who did leave for the new Lowland League were told that if they were relegated from the league they would need to apply to the sjfa and start at the bottom division again. 

No that was people stirring up shit. TJ admitted theyd come in at the Premier League

[PRICEY]

Was the talk at the time that junior clubs who did leave for the new Lowland League were told that if they were relegated from the league they would need to apply to the sjfa and start at the bottom division again. 
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As it stands where else would they go?..There’s no promotion/relegation between the LL and the WRJFA.If a West super league team had jumped ship teams would have been promoted in order to fill the top division.Obviously that won’t be the case if the West joins the pyramid.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 hours ago, santheman said:

If I was a betting man I would put money on the AGM passing with a few dissenting voices but nothing substantial to force the issue. 

I think you'll find that some in the WRJFA want in but the vast majority articularly the lower league clubs couldn't really give a toss one way or another.

Think that's what will happen. Especially with the SFA messing clubs about with licensing this year. The whole idea that "nothing will change for most of you in the pyramid" works both ways. It's not exactly an incentive to join and it gives a reason to not bother signing up for it.

[PRICEY]

If I was a betting man I would put money on the AGM passing with a few dissenting voices but nothing substantial to force the issue. 
I think you'll find that some in the WRJFA want in but the vast majority articularly the lower league clubs couldn't really give a toss one way or another so if there was a vote I reckon that TJ will be told to act on the original mandate until the SFA tell him that it's not going to happen.
Then you  MIGHT get some clubs breaking away  to form a WOSL league because they dont want to wait indefinitely for things to progress.
Then you're left with  a much reduced SJFA but still encompassing the 3 regions.
Then you're left with a WOSL with possible promotion to the LL but with no relegation unless they revert back to the remaining Junior Leagues.

I think it’s a certainty the SJFA will be told todeal with the regions as three separate issues.The compromise being the WRJFA joining the pyramid but still under the jurisdiction of the SJFA.
As you say,the majority of clubs couldn’t give a fek about joining the pyramid,how many clubs will ibe better off for it?.
The only incentive is the golden ticket of Scottish cup entry.

[TheLad]

Nothing will happen until the SFA come out with a definitive statement one way or another to the SJFA clubs about their mandate to join the pyramid as a unit. Clubs are waiting with bated breath on that announcement.
If they say no to that which they inevitably will then it will be up to the clubs to decide which course of action to take.
Whether that is choosing to remain Junior, the WRJFA choosing to go it alone, individual clubs deciding to get together to form a new WOSL, or the SFA sticking 2 fingers up at the SJFA and setting up a new WOSL themselves is open to debate.

I don't get this?
I haven't seen anything to suggest that the SFA are the driving force behind Junior teams' transitioning to the pyramid.
I don't think there is that much motivation from the SFA for it to happen, though they are willing to facilitate, mediate and accommodate the discussions and process of it happening.

What difference to them does it make if West Juniors transition over or not?

If teams are waiting on the SFA doing all the graft and legwork to make plans and statements about something they are not that fussed about, then it's nothing short of madness.

The desire of teams will force things through, or if they don't want things to happen that much, it wont.

Think about it, what do the SFA have to gain from doing all that work? They wont be opposed to complete pyramid integration but it's no biggy if it doesn't happen. It's not a priority.

The fact that no team or group of teams in the west are leading any charge suggests to me they are not that fussed either.

If you want anything to happen, you don't wait, you make it happen.

[Guest]

I think it’s a certainty the SJFA will be told todeal with the regions as three separate issues.The compromise being the WRJFA joining the pyramid but still under the jurisdiction of the SJFA.
As you say,the majority of clubs couldn’t give a fek about joining the pyramid,how many clubs will ibe better off for it?.
The only incentive is the golden ticket of Scottish cup entry.

Any west feeder league who joins the pyramid structure will exist under the sfa's jurisdiction. The sjfa will not hold jurisdiction over the league, that is the function of the sfa. The sjfa, in my view, should have no part in running anything in the pyramid given their approach to this whole debacle.

To challenge the view of 'golden ticket' Scottish Cup entry pricey, that isn't the only reason clubs want to be part of the pyramid. If a club moves solely for that reason then that is an ill informed move and will likely see said club(s) doomed in the longer term. The pyramid is much more than gaining Scottish Cup entry, and frankly, Scottish Cup entry is tied to sfa licencing, not playing football in the pyramid itself.

[Tutankhamen]

47 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Any west feeder league who joins the pyramid structure will exist under the sfa's jurisdiction. The sjfa will not hold jurisdiction over the league, that is the function of the sfa. The sjfa, in my view, should have no part in running anything in the pyramid given their approach to this whole debacle.

To challenge the view of 'golden ticket' Scottish Cup entry pricey, that isn't the only reason clubs want to be part of the pyramid. If a club moves solely for that reason then that is an ill informed move and will likely see said club(s) doomed in the longer term. The pyramid is much more than gaining Scottish Cup entry, and frankly, Scottish Cup entry is tied to sfa licencing, not playing football in the pyramid itself.

Doubt the pyramid would concern anymore than a handful of West clubs if promotion is the goal.  There might be odd exception for instance Rossvale should probably have applied to join the LL when it started. That would have the LL more of balance rather than being a glorified East of Scotland League.

[Guest]

Doubt the pyramid would concern anymore than a handful of West clubs if promotion is the goal.  There might be odd exception for instance Rossvale should probably have applied to join the LL when it started. That would have the LL more of balance rather than being a glorified East of Scotland League.

Why wouldn't a club want to be promoted and play against the very best opposition available in the highest league they can play in? That is a stance I can't get my head around.

The pessimism and whataboutery that surrounds this whole debacle is extraordinary. No matter the club, no matter the level, no matter the historical affiliation with any association, the goal surely has to be to play at the highest level you can and to go and attempt to progress your club as far as it can go. As far as a glorified eos league.....teams from the east are predominantly contained in the LL, however this is why the LL, the eos league, the sfa and the pwg are trying to get a West feeder in, to allow everyone the chance of being part of and progressing through the pyramid

[Jason King]

30 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Doubt the pyramid would concern anymore than a handful of West clubs if promotion is the goal.  There might be odd exception for instance Rossvale should probably have applied to join the LL when it started. That would have the LL more of balance rather than being a glorified East of Scotland League.

I'm actually embarrassed for you if that's your view. 

Shaking my head in disbelief that once again you fail to see the bigger picture,  teams in the "West" are quickly being left behind by teams they were ahead of just a couple of years ago and its going to get worse. Unless there is pyramid integration we're going to continue to see falling standards and interest in the West whilst the "glorified EoS League" and its East feeder power ahead.

Not sure why some fans and clubs fail to see the impact that not being in the pyramid is already having.

[Tutankhamen]

24 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Why wouldn't a club want to be promoted and play against the very best opposition available in the highest league they can play in? That is a stance I can't get my head around.

The pessimism and whataboutery that surrounds this whole debacle is extraordinary. No matter the club, no matter the level, no matter the historical affiliation with any association, the goal surely has to be to play at the highest level you can and to go and attempt to progress your club as far as it can go. As far as a glorified eos league.....teams from the east are predominantly contained in the LL, however this is why the LL, the eos league, the sfa and the pwg are trying to get a West feeder in, to allow everyone the chance of being part of and progressing through the pyramid

Doubt anybody is pushing hard against the pyramid other than the SFA making a complete hash of it. No doubt one day a team with licence from the West will move up and enjoy a day out at Berwick or East Stirling.

If Berwick or East Stirling are still the LL that is.

[Tutankhamen]

6 minutes ago, Jason King said:

I'm actually embarrassed for you if that's your view. 

Shaking my head in disbelief that once again you fail to see the bigger picture,  teams in the "West" are quickly being left behind by teams they were ahead of just a couple of years ago and its going to get worse. Unless there is pyramid integration we're going to continue to see falling standards and interest in the West whilst the "glorified EoS League" and its East feeder power ahead.

Not sure why some fans and clubs fail to see the impact that not being in the pyramid is already having.

Contact the SFA with the embarrassment problem, bud.