Burnie_man Posted March 14, 2020 Author Share Posted March 14, 2020 Your points are pointless. Things have moved on.A compromise has been reached.The LL WOSL is going ahead which is exactly what you've been after.Perhaps not with the destruction of the SJFA that you'd hoped for, but it's happening nonetheless. It seems you're not as important and influential as you'd like to believe. In fact, you're a sad, insecure and insignificant individual that hates not getting what you want. Put the dummy back in, sit back and enjoy the new Future of the Juniors. So no answers then to very pertinent points. People can judge for themselves the motives.Instead, just more insults and attacks. Cool [emoji106] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
never been to scotland Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said: Your points are pointless. Things have moved on. A compromise has been reached. The LL WOSL is going ahead which is exactly what you've been after. Perhaps not with the destruction of the SJFA that you'd hoped for, but it's happening nonetheless. It seems you're not as important and influential as you'd like to believe. In fact, you're a sad, insecure and insignificant individual that hates not getting what you want. Put the dummy back in, sit back and enjoy the new Future of the Juniors. But they won't be juniors... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 minute ago, never been to scotland said: But they won't be juniors... Why does it matter what clubs identify as, if the reality is that they are fully integrated into the pyramid? Best to turn the page and move onto the next chapter by finding a solution on what to do with the junior cup that works well for everybody. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beenzon-Toste Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 But they won't be juniors... Mars changed the name of their Marathon chocolate bar to Snickers.It was still called a Marathon bar for ages. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Starko Rover Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Sorry if this has been covered but as I understand it the WRJFA will move across and become WOSFL incorporating any joiners from other leagues. Teams will be Senior but can remain members of SJFA and compete in Junior cup. What happens in few years time when some of the teams are in the SPFL? Can they still be SJFA and play in the Junior cup? Say Pollok work their way up to the Championship will they be able to field a team in the Junior Cup? Would they treat it like Raith and Dunfermline treat the Fife cup and field a reserve team or hammer teams with their full team?Compromise is fine but surely once teams are SPFL they can’t play in a tournament designed for Non-League teams. Do they have to resign SJFA membership at a certain level? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Sorry if this has been covered but as I understand it the WRJFA will move across and become WOSFL incorporating any joiners from other leagues. Teams will be Senior but can remain members of SJFA and compete in Junior cup. What happens in few years time when some of the teams are in the SPFL? Can they still be SJFA and play in the Junior cup? Say Pollok work their way up to the Championship will they be able to field a team in the Junior Cup? Would they treat it like Raith and Dunfermline treat the Fife cup and field a reserve team or hammer teams with their full team?Compromise is fine but surely once teams are SPFL they can’t play in a tournament designed for Non-League teams. Do they have to resign SJFA membership at a certain level? I hope these are the finer details that will be ironed out in time (given we have that after Corona gate)It's a good start but I hope all parties see sense and have one cup for non league as opposed to south challenge and junior cup....one cup for all so to speak (just not called the junior cup) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Starko Rover Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 I hope these are the finer details that will be ironed out in time (given we have that after Corona gate) It's a good start but I hope all parties see sense and have one cup for non league as opposed to south challenge and junior cup....one cup for all so to speak (just not called the junior cup) I agree mate, I just think they need to ensure the Junior cup is only open to Non League teams, we’ve seen Ross Country and ICT both came from HL (ICT obviously a merger) I’d just be concerned if you allow all ex Juniors to retain their SJFA membership it could ruin their cup by having a ridiculously strong team from the SPFL in it or you get (ex Junior) SPFL teams chucking out their reserves and devaluing the cup. The Junior cup becoming a National non league cup sounds a good part of the compromise and should become open to everyone tier 5 down only. Keep the trophy and keep the name if people really want for historical reasons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marconi Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 from a west point of view. the SJFA had a mandate to get all teams into the pyramid, they failed. west region still wanted to join so called a meeting to decide future moves. the west reps. managed to arrange a PWG [partial] meeting where a measure of agreement was reached. if discussions go well the west will join no matter what TJ thinks. after joining talks can be held to clear up any outstanding issues to be decide by majority vote at future meetings, any team that wants can leave and join an organisation of their choice. what is wrong with any of this? I believed the ambition was to have a west league at tier 6 this delivers that ambition. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, marconi said: from a west point of view. the SJFA had a mandate to get all teams into the pyramid, they failed. west region still wanted to join so called a meeting to decide future moves. the west reps. managed to arrange a PWG [partial] meeting where a measure of agreement was reached. if discussions go well the west will join no matter what TJ thinks. after joining talks can be held to clear up any outstanding issues to be decide by majority vote at future meetings, any team that wants can leave and join an organisation of their choice. what is wrong with any of this? I believed the ambition was to have a west league at tier 6 this delivers that ambition. If the West Region votes as a unified bloc its 63 (west)-70 (rest) in any SJFA vote presumably. So they only need a handful of votes to change things on a SJFA level if its a case of a simple majority over a vote like this. As long as Lowland League area clubs have to participate in the South Challenge Cup I don't really have a problem with it too much. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor44 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Make the scc tier 5 and below and make Junior cup tier 6 and below . Sorted 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Razor44 said: Make the scc tier 5 and below and make Junior cup tier 6 and below . Sorted That doesn't make much difference. There are further changes that have to be incorporated into the Junior Cup to allow both to fit into the calendar. Scrapping of replays, two legged semi finals. Allowing games not to take place on Saturdays. There's also the difference in payment and how clubs are compensated. Looking at how the early rounds of the Junior Cup went this year. The Second Round was mainly played on 28th September. Then you had the likes of Dufftown v. EK Thistle on 5th October, Culter v. Wishaw on 12th October, Thorniewood v. Banks O'Dee on October 26th. Games like that which might not make enough money to pay the guarantee as it is, would perhaps struggle even more if they had to play catch up druing midweek. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastyMan Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Throughout this thread, on many, many ocassions, the question has been asked along the lines of what does being "Junior" mean. The only answer of any substance has been "The Junior Cup". If the outcome of the discussions is the establishment of a WoSL Senior league incorporating all the former WRJFA clubs along with a number of other new applicants, feeding into the Lowland League play off then by far and away the most important battle has been won. As far as I can see the continuation of a Junior Cup, presuming it is a voluntary opt in and is fitted around the main competitions of the LL and pyramid then so be it. It seems a pretty trivial concession and a wise approach from the LL to show some magnaminity in victory. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 If Auchinleck Talbot got SFA Licenced and were competing in the SFA Cup and SCC, I can't see them being interested in competing in the Junior Cup as well. It would just be a distraction for them. Same with most clubs that get licenced. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, theesel1994 said: If Auchinleck Talbot got SFA Licenced and were competing in the SFA Cup and SCC, I can't see them being interested in competing in the Junior Cup as well. It would just be a distraction for them. Same with most clubs that get licenced. Its something that was always going to happen even with the WRSJFA entering as it existed. More clubs are going to get licenced and the Scottish Cup will take precedence in the early half of the season when the focus is usually on the early rounds of the Junior Cup and new trips to places outside your region. Then once knocked out its going to be about getting the league campaign finished in time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Make the scc tier 5 and below and make Junior cup tier 6 and below . Sorted Or have all teams on the one cup and call it something different. A new cup for a new beginning. Not a half arsed new start.sorted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 I agree mate, I just think they need to ensure the Junior cup is only open to Non League teams, we’ve seen Ross Country and ICT both came from HL (ICT obviously a merger) I’d just be concerned if you allow all ex Juniors to retain their SJFA membership it could ruin their cup by having a ridiculously strong team from the SPFL in it or you get (ex Junior) SPFL teams chucking out their reserves and devaluing the cup. The Junior cup becoming a National non league cup sounds a good part of the compromise and should become open to everyone tier 5 down only. Keep the trophy and keep the name if people really want for historical reasons. ICT and Ross County Still play in some of the Highland cups they just put out their u21 or reserves. Celtic and Rangers still play in the Glasgow cup playing their u21. If retaining the Junior cup gets everyone on board then don't see what the issue with keeping it going is.It will probably fade away as clubs progress up the pyramid and up getting scrapped anyway or have the same relevance as the Glasgow cup or other regional cups. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Just now, theesel1994 said: If Auchinleck Talbot got SFA Licenced and were competing in the SFA Cup and SCC, I can't see them being interested in competing in the Junior Cup as well. It would just be a distraction for them. Same with most clubs that get licenced. Bear in mind that the West of Scotland and Sectional League cups could fall by the wayside after pyramid entry so the SCC can be slotted in. The logistics of it are very much doable. In addition to the SCC, there is a local cup run by the East of Scotland FA that EoS and some LL clubs compete in called the Football Nations Cup and there is also the King Cup for non-licensed EoS clubs that runs on Scottish cup dates. Slotting in the Junior Cup as an WoSFA alternative in a similar sort of way is far from mission impossible in scheduling terms as long as replays get ditched and they consider making other changes that streamline it sensibly if necessary such as Scottish Cup entrants only entering in later rounds and/or regionalising the first couple of rounds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoosh83 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 I may have missed what im going to ask as im new to this, but has there been anything put forward in terms of promotion/relegation to the LL? The way i see it is that if it remains as only 1 team relegated from a 16 tier league, but 3 leagues vying for 1 promotion place, then imo the LL are having their cake and eating it, and for some clubs its probably an even bigger pipe dream than it ever was getting to the spfl if the west come on board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 4 hours ago, G4Mac said: Whilst I get what you are saying, to produce a 4 part outline of what wrsjfa clubs will 'accept' is ridiculous and fills me with fear that once in the pyramid the wrsjfa will still take this approach and undermine any long term progress. New league, new start and a new wosfl committee required to ensure future progress..... if we dont get that we will still be having the same discussion in 5 years time about 134 year history and 'grade' wars. In 5 years time it will be 139 year history... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 I may have missed what im going to ask as im new to this, but has there been anything put forward in terms of promotion/relegation to the LL? The way i see it is that if it remains as only 1 team relegated from a 16 tier league, but 3 leagues vying for 1 promotion place, then imo the LL are having their cake and eating it, and for some clubs its probably an even bigger pipe dream than it ever was getting to the spfl if the west come on board.They will most likely change it once the wosfl is in place. It also gives them scope to argue for direct promotion to the spfl instead of a playoff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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