Junior football, what is the future?

[Che Dail]

17 minutes ago, Garret Deasy said:

The 'inducements' from the SFA for them to play the pyramid system were financially attractive, but HV stood by what they believed it, and still believe in.

If you look at the EoS p+b thread "grounds for optimism" you'll see the efforts LTHV are making to improve the facilities at saughton - Covered enclosure, toilet block and turnstiles to be built at Saughton.

100% they want a licence and to play LL.

[Garret Deasy]

21 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

If you look at the EoS p+b thread "grounds for optimism" you'll see the efforts LTHV are making to improve the facilities at saughton - Covered enclosure, toilet block and turnstiles to be built at Saughton.

100% they want a licence and to play LL.

Of course they want to improve it. Running track  keeping supporters away from the game, usually huddling under trees, playing on a surface that has shot putts and javelins destroying the playing surface every week, crap drainage , and the politics of neighbouring clubs all getting in the way.

[Che Dail]

12 minutes ago, Garret Deasy said:

Of course they want to improve it. Running track  keeping supporters away from the game, usually huddling under trees, playing on a surface that has shot putts and javelins destroying the playing surface every week, crap drainage , and the politics of neighbouring clubs all getting in the way.

Sounds like Hampden!!!

(Except for the trees, javelins and shot putts, obviously)

Edited January 7, 2018 by Che Dail

[newcastle broon]

1 hour ago, Che Dail said:

If you look at the EoS p+b thread "grounds for optimism" you'll see the efforts LTHV are making to improve the facilities at saughton - Covered enclosure, toilet block and turnstiles to be built at Saughton.

100% they want a licence and to play LL.

Has any of these improvements started yet? 

That's my point. 

Fair enough if they have but it's all good and well having plans but acting on them is totally different matter? 

[dwl123]

3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Fine, if we were starting from scratch now, but we're not. Present league one and two clubs won't go for regional football and the pro clubs at level 2 would want a national feeder to fall into.

Fair point SW but i was looking at how the smaller clubs could save on the travel costs. Perhaps have regional leagues below league 1? Just a thought.

[Che Dail]

16 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Has any of these improvements started yet? 

That's my point. 

Fair enough if they have but it's all good and well having plans but acting on them is totally different matter? 

See:

http://www.lothianthistlefc.co.uk

And scroll down past the St.Mirren articles to SAUGHTON ENCLOSURE FACILITIES where it describes some of the work that has been done and what needs to be done in their "quest for a license". 

[santheman]

Anyone else's eyes bleeding yet?

[Che Dail]

6 minutes ago, santheman said:

Anyone else's eyes bleeding yet?

No but I've got zoom cramp in my first and second fingers 

[Craig fae the Vale]

To be fair the East and West Superleague champions playing off with EoSL and SoSL champions to get into the LL (and by extension be able to become licensed if the hit the critera) seems like a reasonable compromise and the best way to at least start discussions on a pyramid in the short to medium term

[edinabear]

3 hours ago, Craig the Hunter said:

To be fair the East and West Superleague champions playing off with EoSL and SoSL champions to get into the LL (and by extension be able to become licensed if the hit the critera) seems like a reasonable compromise and the best way to at least start discussions on a pyramid in the short to medium term

Going by those meeting notes posted a couple of pages ago that was the original proposal to start with back in 2013 which was then going to lead to the eventual amalgamation of all these leagues.

[HTG]

15 hours ago, Che Dail said:

If you look at the EoS p+b thread "grounds for optimism" you'll see the efforts LTHV are making to improve the facilities at saughton - Covered enclosure, toilet block and turnstiles to be built at Saughton.

100% they want a licence and to play LL.

They should just move to Alloa or Airdrie. 

[LongTimeLurker]

...Spartans was the obvious one until Edinburgh City moved in there. The weird thing about LTHV is that they talked in the Edinburgh News about having applied for the Lowland League when they had no chance of getting licensed at Saughton and don't appear to have tried to make alternative arrangements. That's maybe why people are suspicious that they are content where they are right now and in no rush to sort things out.

[Che Dail]

48 minutes ago, HTG said:

They should just move to Alloa or Airdrie. 

Seriously though - a groundshare with Broxburn until work at saughton is done...? Less than 10 miles away. Although the conflicting / absence of fixture lists might put paid to that idea...

Edited January 8, 2018 by Che Dail

[stanley]

56 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Seriously though - a groundshare with Broxburn until work at saughton is done...? Less than 10 miles away. Although the conflicting / absence of fixture lists might put paid to that idea...

There are a few licensed teams in Edinburgh.   Spartans already groundshare but maybe Edinburgh Uni or Civil Service?

[Che Dail]

8 minutes ago, stanley said:

There are a few licensed teams in Edinburgh.   Spartans already groundshare but maybe Edinburgh Uni or Civil Service?

Aye, I was thinking astro... but then saughton is grass and groundshared

[8MileBU]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...Spartans was the obvious one until Edinburgh City moved in there. The weird thing about LTHV is that they talked in the Edinburgh News about having applied for the Lowland League when they had no chance of getting licensed at Saughton and don't appear to have tried to make alternative arrangements. That's maybe why people are suspicious that they are content where they are right now and in no rush to sort things out.

Played in an amateur cup final at Saughton Enclosure about 10 years ago and could only describe it as a crumbling relic with a pitch that was 75% sand. 

[Burnie_man]

Never been there but looking at the pics and brief views when passing by, it's not much different from our old ground, and the pavilion looks as though it could do with knocking down and starting again.

[Garret Deasy]

I know it is enjoyable for some to play around with leagues, mergers, pyramids, cups, including diddy cups, summer season or winter breaks but I would like to go back a step.

This takes us to how the sport is administered (by the SJFA) and also how clubs are run. There is a regular chorus about what the SJFA do, and especially what they don't do. All perfectly justified but would like to come back to that later.

But first how the clubs are run. The evidence is pretty clear that clubs that run themselves 'correctly' are also more successful on the pitch. They have competent people in key posts on their committee who are there to take the club forward honestly and without personal agendas taking over. You only have to think of Auchinleck, Linlithgow (excluding the fat dictator's time when it started to fall apart), Pollok, Beith etc. A good few others I could mention. 

At the other end we have outrageous behaviour at club level which is tolerated and condoned by the powers that be in the SJFA. What you quietly condone today is only postponing a bigger and dirtier day of reckoning. 

One club run by two undischarged bankrupts, one looking after the money, while using the club facilities for 'extra curricular' activities, the income being pocketed.
Funding given for a car park, £1200 (in cash) going on a lorry load of tarmac, the other 23,800 going on players. Few years later club on verge of going out of business.
The manager who got players to sign for next season, keeping the forms in his back pocket. Then manager poached by another club so he tears up the forms and take the players to the new club. No honesty or ethics from his new club, stupidity from his old one.
Clubs signing players on big contracts only to find that by October there is no money.  SJFA seems happy for players to be treated like this.
Generally on public funding, clubs not using the money as intended, which ruins that source for all others. Watch out for clubs buying players insisting on paying cash.
Club that paid their bills by cheque only knowing they were overdrawn when the cheques bounced. And they bounced every week. Fine for some, but no way to run a club.
The property speculators (not developers) who knows somebody who will buy the ground. This business 'angel' then gets on the committee and makes all the running. One committee member told me they would end up with half a million in the bank after the deal is done. Aye right!
The club with a bar, the club losing serious money. When showing a breakdown of the finances to an accountant, he asked if I knew who was on the fiddle. Answer, probably 3 committee members. 

Committees are made up of people of all skills and backgrounds, but when a club is not run properly any potential volunteer committee member will turn up a few times and then run for it. Especially if they have a professional reputation to protect. So a bit of a catch 22,  can't get volunteers on our committee, and yes we are a shambles but that is the way we do it here. 

So, my point is, can the SJFA not get a programme in place to help clubs run themselves better?  It may be courses, getting advisers available on call to help, organising volunteers who can help for a set period (say a year) without signing up to a lifetime commitment.  It must include how to manage money, plan ahead, to even running meetings, documenting what the committee does, marketing the club locally, and engaging with their members etc. All standard stuff. 

We can keep playing around with the changes on the playing side, but without substance and competence at club level we are merely building on sand, and the path ahead can only be downwards. Without strong clubs the SJFA is for nothing. We have few enough strong clubs in the junior ranks, and as we now see some of the more competent (and ambitious) ones  are jumping ship.

If the moment of decision is not now, when will it be?

In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing. – Theodore Roosevelt

[8MileBU]

I know it is enjoyable for some to play around with leagues, mergers, pyramids, cups, including diddy cups, summer season or winter breaks but I would like to go back a step.
This takes us to how the sport is administered (by the SJFA) and also how clubs are run. There is a regular chorus about what the SJFA do, and especially what they don't do. All perfectly justified but would like to come back to that later.
But first how the clubs are run. The evidence is pretty clear that clubs that run themselves 'correctly' are also more successful on the pitch. They have competent people in key posts on their committee who are there to take the club forward honestly and without personal agendas taking over. You only have to think of Auchinleck, Linlithgow (excluding the fat dictator's time when it started to fall apart), Pollok, Beith etc. A good few others I could mention. 
At the other end we have outrageous behaviour at club level which is tolerated and condoned by the powers that be in the SJFA. What you quietly condone today is only postponing a bigger and dirtier day of reckoning. 
One club run by two undischarged bankrupts, one looking after the money, while using the club facilities for 'extra curricular' activities, the income being pocketed.
Funding given for a car park, £1200 (in cash) going on a lorry load of tarmac, the other 23,800 going on players. Few years later club on verge of going out of business.
The manager who got players to sign for next season, keeping the forms in his back pocket. Then manager poached by another club so he tears up the forms and take the players to the new club. No honesty or ethics from his new club, stupidity from his old one.
Clubs signing players on big contracts only to find that by October there is no money.  SJFA seems happy for players to be treated like this.
Generally on public funding, clubs not using the money as intended, which ruins that source for all others. Watch out for clubs buying players insisting on paying cash.
Club that paid their bills by cheque only knowing they were overdrawn when the cheques bounced. And they bounced every week. Fine for some, but no way to run a club.
The property speculators (not developers) who knows somebody who will buy the ground. This business 'angel' then gets on the committee and makes all the running. One committee member told me they would end up with half a million in the bank after the deal is done. Aye right!
The club with a bar, the club losing serious money. When showing a breakdown of the finances to an accountant, he asked if I knew who was on the fiddle. Answer, probably 3 committee members. 
Committees are made up of people of all skills and backgrounds, but when a club is not run properly any potential volunteer committee member will turn up a few times and then run for it. Especially if they have a professional reputation to protect. So a bit of a catch 22,  can't get volunteers on our committee, and yes we are a shambles but that is the way we do it here. 
So, my point is, can the SJFA not get a programme in place to help clubs run themselves better?  It may be courses, getting advisers available on call to help, organising volunteers who can help for a set period (say a year) without signing up to a lifetime commitment.  It must include how to manage money, plan ahead, to even running meetings, documenting what the committee does, marketing the club locally, and engaging with their members etc. All standard stuff. 
We can keep playing around with the changes on the playing side, but without substance and competence at club level we are merely building on sand, and the path ahead can only be downwards. Without strong clubs the SJFA is for nothing. We have few enough strong clubs in the junior ranks, and as we now see some of the more competent (and ambitious) ones  are jumping ship.
If the moment of decision is not now, when will it be?

In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing. – Theodore Roosevelt

[Che Dail]

34 minutes ago, Garret Deasy said:

So, my point is, can the SJFA not get a programme in place to help clubs run themselves better?  It may be courses, getting advisers available on call to help, organising volunteers who can help for a set period (say a year) without signing up to a lifetime commitment.  It must include how to manage money, plan ahead, to even running meetings, documenting what the committee does, marketing the club locally, and engaging with their members etc. All standard stuff. 

 

Take it easy Deasy... some rant that!  Fascinating stuff though...

On the excerpt above, see SFA Club Services for advice on:

BUSINESS START UP / PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT/ GOVERNANCE/ EQUALITY AND DIVERSITY/ DEVELOPMENT AND VOLUNTEERING/ FUNDING/ MONITORING AND EVALUATION/ FOOTBALL FAMILY 

which is found here:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/2287/developing-community-clubs-support-directory.pdf

Over the past few years the SFA also ran Club Business workshops, and Sported / Work out for Sport had a funding program for clubs looking for support in certain areas which I believe the Assoc have now taken over.  

Now breathe, drink a glass of milk and get to bed!