topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 It is cheeky of Irish Language enthusiasts to try and exploit the precarious political balance to get lots of state funding for their hobby but after shaking down Westminster for a cool billion the DUP are in no position to criticise political opportunism or to say that the money’s not there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 10 hours ago, parsforlife said: Your going to have to explain how it's a human rights thing, as far as I'm aware there isn't any rights that require anyone to conduct business with you in any particular language. Linguistic rights are human rights. I would hope for the vast majority of people that is not even contestable. Who is talking about conducting business? The human rights associated with linguistic rights are primarily concerned with functions of the state. Practically this means little more than a right to education in your language and access to healthcare, justice , culture and media in a proportionate way relative to majority languages. Before the "*What about Urdu" brigade start. The European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages, which the UK has ratified, does not include "immigrant" languages. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: Linguistic rights are human rights. I would hope for the vast majority of people that is not even contestable. Who is talking about conducting business? The human rights associated with linguistic rights are primarily concerned with functions of the state. Practically this means little more than a right to education in your language and access to healthcare, justice , culture and media in a proportionate way relative to majority languages. Before the "*What about Urdu" brigade start. The European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages, which the UK has ratified, does not include "immigrant" languages. Surely English is an immigrant language in n Ireland 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Surely English is an immigrant language in n Ireland You raise a good question. How long does a language need to have been in use in a country before it has to be accepted by blood and soil nationalists? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 minute ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: You raise a good question. How long does a language need to have been in use in a country before it has to be accepted by blood and soil nationalists? I think the purveyors of English in n Ireland are clearly the blood and soil nationalists here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I think the purveyors of English in n Ireland are clearly the blood and soil nationalists here Dastardly Purveyors of English like Joyce, Shaw, Wilde, Yeats and Becket you mean? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 32 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Dastardly Purveyors of English like Joyce, Shaw, Wilde, Yeats and Becket you mean? You can be as obtuse as you want it doesn't change the fact English is an immigrant language forced on n Ireland by a colonial power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 You can be as obtuse as you want it doesn't change the fact English is an immigrant language forced on n Ireland by a colonial power. It would have been better to simply admit that you misused the word “purveyors” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: It would have been better to simply admit that you misused the word “purveyors” That's kind of true 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Surely English is an immigrant language in n Ireland Spoken by 100% of the population of Northern Ireland, a mere 0.2% speak fluent and regularly use Irish as their first language. Presumably there are many day to day occasions where even they will need to switch to English in order to communicate and complete the most basic of transactions. I can’t think of another ‘immigrant language’ that compares as such.The Catholic Church of Ireland was a keen supporter of promoting the widespread use of English across the whole of the island (spoken & written) in both the 18th & 19th Century, just out of interest btw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Spoken by 100% of the population of Northern Ireland, a mere 0.2% speak fluent and regularly use Irish as their first language. Presumably there are many day to day occasions where even they will need to switch to English in order to communicate and complete the most basic of transactions. I can’t think of another ‘immigrant language’ that compares as such. The Catholic Church of Ireland was a keen supporter of promoting the widespread use of English across the whole of the island (spoken & written) in both the 18th & 19th Century, just out of interest btw. Why are the DUP blocking Stormont over it though? Do they see a tactical advantage somewhere? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 That's kind of true Easy mistake “Purvey” is a colonial word brought over from Norman French by immigrants less than a millennium ago 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Spoken by 100% of the population of Northern Ireland, a mere 0.2% speak fluent and regularly use Irish as their first language. Presumably there are many day to day occasions where even they will need to switch to English in order to communicate and complete the most basic of transactions. I can’t think of another ‘immigrant language’ that compares as such. The Catholic Church of Ireland was a keen supporter of promoting the widespread use of English across the whole of the island (spoken & written) in both the 18th & 19th Century, just out of interest btw. LOL Absolutely triggered! It's true though isn't it Rob. English is an immigrant language in n Ireland. That's a fact Rob isn't it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said: LOL Absolutely triggered! It's true though isn't it Rob. English is an immigrant language in n Ireland. That's a fact Rob isn't it? It's an immigrant language in England. Snowflake. If you insist on using teenage alt-right immigrant language. Edited February 13, 2018 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 LOL Absolutely triggered! It's true though isn't it Rob. English is an immigrant language in n Ireland. That's a fact Rob isn't it? How far do you want to go back Pep, English has been used/spoken in Ireland since the Middle Ages, I guess to the benefit of both the indigenous and their visitors. Perhaps in the same way that the Anglo Saxons and Normans have influenced and shaped the language we use today. Is English an immigrant language in Ireland in the same sense as the use of English in America or Australia, yes I suppose it is, it’s adoption being much earlier however. By coincidence, just reading a wee while ago how the Arab Moors influenced the modern Spanish Language. Interesting stuff! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Why are the DUP blocking Stormont over it though? Do they see a tactical advantage somewhere? Seems as though there might have been, perhaps still is a deal in the offing, including the Ulster-Scots language and protection of other ‘cultural celebrations’. AF has since confirmed that there can be no stand alone deal on an ILA. Guess you can imagine the cost and red tape that mandatory quotas and binding legislation will create across all areas of public life, in Education, Health, Employment, Housing, Transport, Local Government etc..etc..for such a small percentage of people who FULLY use the language. Strikes me that there are much more pressing matters than this smokescreen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Seems as though there might have been, perhaps still is a deal in the offing, including the Ulster-Scots language and protection of other ‘cultural celebrations’. AF has since confirmed that there can be no stand alone deal on an ILA. Guess you can imagine the cost and red tape that mandatory quotas and binding legislation will create across all areas of public life, in Education, Health, Employment, Housing, Transport, Local Government etc..etc..for such a small percentage of people who FULLY use the language. Strikes me that there are much more pressing matters than this smokescreen. They cope with similar laws in Wales and Scotland; and Eire for that matter. I was wondering if the DUP thought there would be an advantage in being the only NI voice heard by Westminster after their seemingly foot in mouth decision to campaign for Brexit? And the convenience of not having to talk about the Energy thing, which probably cost far more than the ILA ever would. Edited February 13, 2018 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I can’t remember if it was Benedict Anderson or Miroslav Hroch that talked about the relatively novelty of Irish and Scottish nationalism largely being conducted out with their “native” tongue. I’ll have a look. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) Gaelic is an imperialist conquerors language in Dublin, Waterford, Cork, Limerick and Wexford Edited February 13, 2018 by invergowrie arab 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Gaelic is LGBT culture and banning it is homophobia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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