Capital Punishment

[The OP]

A guy who lived in the same area as me when I was younger once shouted and swore at me in a mad rage because I had the gall to say hello to the person he was speaking to at the time. He is currently serving a life sentence for murder although a lot of evidence suggests it was someone else who dealt the fatal blow. 

I think f**k him, let him rot. IMO this is an example of why victims should not have a say in sentencing. 

[Honest_Man#1]

29 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

Completely against the death penalty, but for crimes of heinous and deliberate cruelty (that attract a life sentence on conviction) I would make incarceration as miserable as possible, with meagre comfort, provisions and ‘privileges’.
If an offender was determined to repent and pay their penance they would see it through. We can then (and only then) talk about the possibilities of rehabilitation.

Studies have shown that conditions like you suggest essentially work against rehabilitation. Either prisons are set up to punish (and therefore require longer sentences, potentially indefinite even for less serious crimes as changes of re-offending increase) or to rehabilitate. Can't have both.

[Richey Edwards]

6 minutes ago, The OP said:

A guy who lived in the same area as me when I was younger once shouted and swore at me in a mad rage because I had the gall to say hello to the person he was speaking to at the time. He is currently serving a life sentence for murder although a lot of evidence suggests it was someone else who dealt the fatal blow. 

I think f**k him, let him rot. IMO this is an example of why victims should not have a say in sentencing. 

"Speaking to" as in having a conversation with, or "speaking to" as in trying to get into their pants?

[The OP]

6 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

"Speaking to" as in having a conversation with, or "speaking to" as in trying to get into their pants?

He was having a conversation with a guy I was at school with at the time outside a pub. As I was walking by I said "Awrite mate" and potential murderer started shouting and swearing and yelling blue murder due to the dreadful interruption.  He actually apologised 5 minutes later inside but nonetheless I am convinced  that a life sentence with a punishment part of 15 years was appropriate for this guy.

[RedRob72]

Studies have shown that conditions like you suggest essentially work against rehabilitation. Either prisons are set up to punish (and therefore require longer sentences, potentially indefinite even for less serious crimes as changes of re-offending increase) or to rehabilitate. Can't have both.

You can’t punish whilst working a plan of rehabilitation? Hmmm
Perhaps that’s why the current system is so ineffective when it comes to re-offending rates which have gone through the roof over the last 20 years. Have we lost any notion whatsoever that a possible prison sentence should serve as a deterrent?

[The OP]

3 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

You can’t punish whilst working a plan of rehabilitation? Hmmm
Perhaps that’s why the current system is so ineffective when it comes to re-offending rates which have gone through the roof over the last 20 years. Have we lost any notion whatsoever that a possible prison sentence should serve as a deterrent?

 

Reoffending rates have been on a steadily downward trend for the last 20 years. In future, performing a simple Google search before posting will aid you, if your goal is to avoid looking like a fud.

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

You can’t punish whilst working a plan of rehabilitation? Hmmm
Perhaps that’s why the current system is so ineffective when it comes to re-offending rates which have gone through the roof over the last 20 years. Have we lost any notion whatsoever that a possible prison sentence should serve as a deterrent?

 

Dropping in Scotland apparently.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Crime-Justice/TrendReOffending

[The OP]

I'd also note that recorded crime (in Scotland) is at its lowest level since 1974, so it's not that the police aren't catching the reoffenders either. 

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, RedRob72 said:

 

You can’t punish whilst working a plan of rehabilitation? Hmmm
Perhaps that’s why the current system is so ineffective when it comes to re-offending rates which have gone through the roof over the last 20 years. Have we lost any notion whatsoever that a possible prison sentence should serve as a deterrent?

 

 

1 hour ago, The OP said:

Reoffending rates have been on a steadily downward trend for the last 20 years. In future, performing a simple Google search before posting will aid you, if your goal is to avoid looking like a fud.

 

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Dropping in Scotland apparently.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Crime-Justice/TrendReOffending

 

1 hour ago, The OP said:

I'd also note that recorded crime (in Scotland) is at its lowest level since 1974, so it's not that the police aren't catching the reoffenders either. 

I believe that's what's known as a TELT.

[RedRob72]

Reoffending rates have been on a steadily downward trend for the last 20 years. In future, performing a simple Google search before posting will aid you, if your goal is to avoid looking like a fud.

Read the Bromley Briefings for 2017 (Prison Reform Trust) and the section Rehabilitation & Resettlement (Reoffending)?
It was brought to my attention at a seminar down in London last year. It paints a different picture.

(It’s a discussion board btw my friend, there’s no need to hurl insults should you disagree. I know it’s the norm on P&B, but it doesn’t add much to open debate.)

[RedRob72]

I'd also note that recorded crime (in Scotland) is at its lowest level since 1974, so it's not that the police aren't catching the reoffenders either. 

My apologies, I didn’t realise that the original post and subsequent discussion on this thread was confined to Scotland.

[chomp my root]

1 minute ago, RedRob72 said:

 

Read the Bromley Briefings for 2017 (Prison Reform Trust) and the section Rehabilitation & Resettlement (Reoffending)?
It was brought to my attention at a seminar down in London last year. It paints a different picture.

(It’s a discussion board btw my friend, there’s no need to hurl insults should you disagree. I know it’s the norm on P&B, but it doesn’t add much to open debate.)

 

Good luck with that philosophy mate. As far as I can tell, the whole point is to hurl insults and try and point score.

[RedRob72]

I believe that's what's known as a TELT.

Yep I guess so, if you believe the world ends at the bottom of the M74.

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

My apologies, I didn’t realise that the original post and subsequent discussion on this thread was confined to Scotland.

The Bromley Briefings apply only to England and Wales. It would be natural to assume that on a Scottish forum we'd be talking about the situation in Scotland.

[The OP]

9 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

Read the Bromley Briefings for 2017 (Prison Reform Trust) and the section Rehabilitation & Resettlement (Reoffending)?
It was brought to my attention at a seminar down in London last year. It paints a different picture.

(It’s a discussion board btw my friend, there’s no need to hurl insults should you disagree. I know it’s the norm on P&B, but it doesn’t add much to open debate.)

 

I've had a quick gander, the report does not support what you think it supports. It states that community orders are better than short-term prison sentences for reducing reoffending.  In fact, England and Wales have been urged to copy 'Soft touch Scotland' to reduce reoffending by The Centre for Justice Innovation (whatever the f**k that is). 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15637550.England_urged_to_copy__soft_touch_Scotland__to_slash_re_offending_rates/

7 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

My apologies, I didn’t realise that the original post and subsequent discussion on this thread was confined to Scotland.

You're on a Scottish football messageboard, you'll find that discussions of legal issues will generally be confined to this jurisdiction rather than one of the other few hundred in the world. 

[The Moonster]

Just now, RedRob72 said:

Yep I guess so, if you believe the world ends at the bottom of the M74.

 

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The Bromley Briefings apply only to England and Wales. It would be natural to assume that on a Scottish forum we'd be talking about the situation in Scotland.

 

2 minutes ago, The OP said:

I've had a quick gander, the report does not support what you think it supports. It states that community orders are better than short-term prison sentences for reducing reoffending.  In fact, England and Wales have been urged to copy 'Soft touch Scotland' to reduce reoffending. 

You're on a Scottish football messageboard, you'll find that discussions of legal issues will generally be confined to this jurisdiction rather than one of the other few hundred in the world. 

TELT #2.

[RedRob72]

Fair enough Gents, perhaps the original title should have read ‘Capital Punishment in Scotland’ just to avoid any comment outside your assumed parameters. My apologies.

[welshbairn]

14 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

Good luck with that philosophy mate. As far as I can tell, the whole point is to hurl insults and try and point score.

Shut it fanny breath.

[The Moonster]

13 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

Fair enough Gents, perhaps the original title should have read ‘Capital Punishment in Scotland’ just to avoid any comment outside your assumed parameters. My apologies.

Apology not accepted.

[RedRob72]

Apology not accepted.

Fair do’s. The point that the reoffend rate of 30% within 12 months across the UK still stands. Our prison population (including reoffenders) is higher than any of our comparable European partners. Either the ‘punishment’ isn’t seen as a deterrent or attempts at rehabilitation are falling way short.