West League - SFA Pyramid

[Che Dail]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

You're having a laugh?   SJFA AGM's consist of TJ talking and nobody else saying a word regardless of what is being said.  I was at one in Dundee that was over in 30 minutes. It's not an environment to show dissent.

To be fair an AGM probably isn't the right forum for this sort of discussion to take place. It tends to be about approving financial statements and election of officials.

Although i believe at the last one members were advised that "the pyramid is flawed".

An EGM on the other hand...

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Yes, and you missed it, ironic because that is my point. 

You said;

"Not that this will be popular but none the less true, the West region has been consistently the strongest in the grade. Yes I get that those outside don't care but that only illustrates why some can't grasp why there is reluctance to move. "

You're equating the strength of the West Region in the Juniors as a valid reason not to move.  That has zero to do with whether becoming involved in a Pyramid or not is a good idea, and is a tallest dwarf competition. However, one of the dwarfs may leave and better themselves. Then what? You'll be better than the North Region.

West Region clubs can be strong in a WoSFL, they can be strong in the LL.

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

To be fair an AGM probably isn't the right forum for this sort of discussion to take place. It tends to be about approving financial statements and election of officials.

Although i believe at the last one members were advised that "the pyramid is flawed".

An EGM on the other hand...

It's not, I've been to several and one of the only debates ever had was a proposal to increase the payment to the Scottish Junior Cup winners from £8,000. It was defeated comprehensively and is still only £8,000.  That was probably 5-6 years ago, maybe longer.  Major change doesn't happen at an SJFA AGM unless TJ wants it.

[Burnie_man]

25 minutes ago, Dunc the drunk said:

Utter nonsense

In what way?

[Che Dail]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

It's not, I've been to several and one of the only debates ever had was a proposal to increase the payment to the Scottish Junior Cup winners from £8,000. It was defeated comprehensively and is still only £8,000.  That was probably 5-6 years ago, maybe longer.  Major change doesn't happen at an SJFA AGM unless TJ wants it.

Is that the actual prize money for winning the Junior Cup? 

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Che Dail said:

Is that the actual prize money for winning the Junior Cup? 

Yes. Linlithgow Rose argued for an increase as it hadn't increased for years (this was at a time when the competition had a sponsor).  Several prominent clubs stood and argued against it and was defeated. It didn't receive any support from the top table. It's still at £8k and to the best of my knowledge no proposal has been tabled since to increase it.  It's pitiful given the amount of cash stashed in the SJFA bank account.

[Che Dail]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

Yes. Linlithgow Rose argued for an increase as it hadn't increased for years (this was at a time when the competition had a sponsor).  Several prominent clubs stood and argued against it and was defeated. It didn't receive any support from the top table. It's still at £8k and to the best of my knowledge no proposal has been tabled since to increase it.  It's pitiful given the amount of cash stashed in the SJFA bank account.

Holy Grail indeed.

[GLENAFTON93]

19 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Holy Grail indeed.

Why so dismissive of this,  ask any Junior club if they would like to have the Scottish Junior Cup sitting at their clubhouse  and  it is the Holy Grail, whats wrong with that. 

[GordonS]

25 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It's pitiful given the amount of cash stashed in the SJFA bank account.

I just went on the Companies House website and was surprised not to be able to find the SJFA. Are they not incorporated? Or do they use an unusual name?

[Burnie_man]

9 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I just went on the Companies House website and was surprised not to be able to find the SJFA. Are they not incorporated? Or do they use an unusual name?

The Scottish Junior Football Association Ltd

[Che Dail]

15 minutes ago, GLENAFTON93 said:

Why so dismissive of this,  ask any Junior club if they would like to have the Scottish Junior Cup sitting at their clubhouse  and  it is the holy grail, whats wrong with that. 

Sorry - not meaning to knock clubs and the effort required to win it, obviously it's a massive achievement and is rightly celebrated.

I'm commenting on the value the SJFA place on their flagship competition. I agree with Burnie - the prize money is pitiful. 

The winners are sold short in my opinion.

 

[santheman]

26 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Sorry - not meaning to knock clubs and the effort required to win it, obviously it's a massive achievement and is rightly celebrated.

I'm commenting on the value the SJFA place on their flagship competition. I agree with Burnie - the prize money is pitiful. 

The winners are sold short in my opinion.

 

Nothing to do with the SJFA as an organisation.

It,s the CLUBS who are the SJFA  not any individual and  if enough of them want to see an increase then it's a simple process to put it on the agenda at an AGM then it goes to a vote.

Democracy at it's best

[Kilbowie Benches]

5 minutes ago, santheman said:

Nothing to do with the SJFA as an organisation.

It,s the CLUBS who are the SJFA  not any individual and  if enough of them want to see an increase then it's a simple process to put it on the agenda at an AGM then it goes to a vote.

Democracy at it's best

Or at its worst if 90% couldn't give a toss.

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

You said;

"Not that this will be popular but none the less true, the West region has been consistently the strongest in the grade. Yes I get that those outside don't care but that only illustrates why some can't grasp why there is reluctance to move. "

You're equating the strength of the West Region in the Juniors as a valid reason not to move.  That has zero to do with whether becoming involved in a Pyramid or not is a good idea, and is a tallest dwarf competition. However, one of the dwarfs may leave and better themselves. Then what? You'll be better than the North Region.

West Region clubs can be strong in a WoSFL, they can be strong in the LL.

I suspect it's less of a talking point at club level over here than it obviously is in the East as there's so little exposure to senior non-league football apart from seeing how many some Highland League club took off Glasgow University in this year's Scottish Cup.

In the East, a lot of senior non-league sides exist cheek-by-jowl with junior clubs - I'm sure they have working relationships with each other in the same way two neighbouring junior clubs in Ayrshire or Glasgow would have. The two LL sides playing in the western central belt are tucked away on the peripheries of new towns however, and paths simply haven't crossed that often that most clubs are aware - by osmosis almost - of the potential benefits of joining up with a functional pyramid once one is available.

 

[Dunc the drunk]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

In what way?

Think that question has already been answered. 

Plus there’s no way anybody would get to speak for half an hour without be told their wrong with you in the room.  

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Hillonearth said:

I suspect it's less of a talking point at club level over here than it obviously is in the East as there's so little exposure to senior non-league football apart from seeing how many some Highland League club took off Glasgow University in this year's Scottish Cup.

In the East, a lot of senior non-league sides exist cheek-by-jowl with junior clubs - I'm sure they have working relationships with each other in the same way two neighbouring junior clubs in Ayrshire or Glasgow would have. The two LL sides playing in the western central belt are tucked away on the peripheries of new towns however, and paths simply haven't crossed that often that most clubs are aware - by osmosis almost - of the potential benefits of joining up with a functional pyramid once one is available.

 

Yeah I get that, the Juniors and Seniors have lived side-by-side for a century, clubs occasionally flitting back and forth.

However in the West, Auchinleck, Beith, Hurlford, Glenafton, Pollok, Irvine Meadow, Girvan, Shotts BA all know what Senior competition has to offer with their Scottish Cup participation, and I guess that's why followers of some of them on here fancy the idea of a Pyramid.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, Dunc the drunk said:

Think that question has already been answered. 

Plus there’s no way anybody would get to speak for half an hour without be told their wrong with you in the room.  

It's not, the AGM lasted barely half an hour. Were you there, or just posting shite as usual to be controversial? grow up.

[santheman]

23 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Or at its worst if 90% couldn't give a toss.

Just as well you won't have to worry about what happens in the SJFA for very much longer then?

[santheman]

14 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I suspect it's less of a talking point at club level over here than it obviously is in the East as there's so little exposure to senior non-league football apart from seeing how many some Highland League club took off Glasgow University in this year's Scottish Cup.

In the East, a lot of senior non-league sides exist cheek-by-jowl with junior clubs - I'm sure they have working relationships with each other in the same way two neighbouring junior clubs in Ayrshire or Glasgow would have. The two LL sides playing in the western central belt are tucked away on the peripheries of new towns however, and paths simply haven't crossed that often that most clubs are aware - by osmosis almost - of the potential benefits of joining up with a functional pyramid once one is available.

 

And there you have the root of the problem in 4 words.

[honestly united]

21 hours ago, Dipple burn said:

Is it not the SFA who are supposed to promote a pyramid system not the actual clubs. If they were truely interested in a West League then they would be promoting it. As it stands they have cobbled together a couple of tiers and called it a day.

There are no senior clubs in the west without a league, the SFA cant start a WoS league without an expression of interest from clubs, until that happens what are the SFA spposed to so? The clubs need to come forward and tell the SFA they want a WoS league