thisal Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said: Ayr United weren't shite when I started either. Bad times when watching a team managed by Gordon Dalziel is your fondest memory of supporting Ayr United. He did sign some really good players though. 2 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said: Ayr United weren't shite when I started either. Bad times when watching a team managed by Gordon Dalziel is your fondest memory of supporting Ayr United. He did sign some really good players though. Thinking Ayr haven't always been shite and posting the same post twice. Sorry to break it to you but dementia is kicking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, ayrmad said: I started in the late 60's, Dalziel' era really wasn't remotely comparable to that era, can only assume I started following Sunderland as a toddler after Dick Malone went there, probably cemented when he helped them win the FA cup when I was 7, the FA cup was huge back then not the diddy trinket that it is today. For some reason I thought you were a lot younger than that. My Papa used to tell me about the games and players from when he start going in the 40's all the way through to the 80's. He made it sound amazing. It must have been great seeing thousands of people at Somerset every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, thisal said: Thinking Ayr haven't always been shite and posting the same post twice. Sorry to break it to you but dementia is kicking in. I only posted it once. You must be seeing double. Lay off the Special Brew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Richey Edwards said: For some reason I thought you were a lot younger than that. My Papa used to tell me about the games and players from when he start going in the 40's all the way through to the 80's. He made it sound amazing. It must have been great seeing thousands of people at Somerset every week. It was amazing, that's the problem for Ayr now, all the old regulars or stayaways are only excited when the kitchen sink comes out, this is the bit McCall doesn't understand about Ayr, that's the bit that gets the SRE rocking,it's not enough to create a few chances and score a few goals, we want spells of all out attack at pace with width, we've watched them doing that to the big teams when they were great teams, now we've to watch them playing chess against teams,it is what it is but it's not super exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said: Ayr United weren't shite when I started either. Bad times when watching a team managed by Gordon Dalziel is your fondest memory of supporting Ayr United. He did sign some really good players though. They were when I started. Still managed to knock the Dons out of the Scottish Cup at Pittodrie in 1964.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman Hessian Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 i think you'll see a contraction of the group stages at some point in the fairly near future - there's already rumblings of discontent that the likes of BATE Borisov are getting a slice of the pie, and "proper" teams have to troll all the ways out to Belarus when they could be playing a lucrative friendly in Qatar, hobnobbing with richard and andy eventually, it'll be a seeded draw, one game only, higher seeded teams at home until there are twelve or so clubs left, who play each other home and away in a de facto european super league - top four in to two-legged semis and final (why have one final when you can have two, eh ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Herman Hessian said: i think you'll see a contraction of the group stages at some point in the fairly near future - there's already rumblings of discontent that the likes of BATE Borisov are getting a slice of the pie, and "proper" teams have to troll all the ways out to Belarus when they could be playing a lucrative friendly in Qatar, hobnobbing with richard and andy eventually, it'll be a seeded draw, one game only, higher seeded teams at home until there are twelve or so clubs left, who play each other home and away in a de facto european super league - top four in to two-legged semis and final (why have one final when you can have two, eh ?) I can't understand why anyone is interested atm never mind your scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 28 minutes ago, ayrmad said: It was amazing, that's the problem for Ayr now, all the old regulars or stayaways are only excited when the kitchen sink comes out, this is the bit McCall doesn't understand about Ayr, that's the bit that gets the SRE rocking,it's not enough to create a few chances and score a few goals, we want spells of all out attack at pace with width, we've watched them doing that to the big teams when they were great teams, now we've to watch them playing chess against teams,it is what it is but it's not super exciting. How many of the 5000+ stay aways who were at the Stranraer playoff game in 2016 would have been put off coming back to Somerset after the dire 120 minutes of football they had to endure? Or the 12000 who were at the 2012 League Cup semi? Two of the worst football matches I have ever seen devoid of any excitement. You need to excite the fans sometime and not make going to the football a chore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman Hessian Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, ayrmad said: I can't understand why anyone is interested atm never mind your scenario. not about making it a competitive and capturing the imagination of proper fans is it - all about getting the minnows to f**k ASAP and the big clubs generating as much money as possible, maximum exposure, maximum brand awareness, maximum corporate partnering and product placement - obviously, it'd be utter shite and no-one sensible would be remotely interested, but as long as billions of asians tune in and pay the premium prices, UEFA don't and won't give a shiny shite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 The group stages and early knockout rounds are generally boring because in most matches you can predict the winner fairly easily. The later knockout rounds are generally boring because it's the same handful of teams year in, year out. League champions only, scrap the groups, scrap seeding, make it a straight knockout. If Real Madrid meet Bayern Munich in the very first round, tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab B Nesbit Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, nsr said: The group stages and early knockout rounds are generally boring because in most matches you can predict the winner fairly easily. The later knockout rounds are generally boring because it's the same handful of teams year in, year out. League champions only, scrap the groups, scrap seeding, make it a straight knockout. If Real Madrid meet Bayern Munich in the very first round, tough. Definitely. Unfortunately it’ll never happen and we all know the reasons why. Unless some sort of European League was formed and maybe a separate old fashioned European Cup knock out. But that would add about another 10 games on for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 The money, and more importantly the absolute greed for money by a number of clubs has destroyed the competition. Just getting to the group stage and getting the cash and not winning it is all that the majority of involved clubs clubs care about. In the same way that the majority of clubs in the EPL are only interesting in surving in the league not trying to win it. The English Championship is far better to watch as the majority of teams want to win it, not survive in it. (I am aware of the irony that winning it changes many of these teams that are wanting to win to wanting to survive - this chnaging their style and watchability). The chnages that money has made to football in the last 25 years is beyond belief and in much not for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, nsr said: The group stages and early knockout rounds are generally boring because in most matches you can predict the winner fairly easily. The later knockout rounds are generally boring because it's the same handful of teams year in, year out. League champions only, scrap the groups, scrap seeding, make it a straight knockout. If Real Madrid meet Bayern Munich in the very first round, tough. Wasn't it Real Madrid getting Bayern Munich and Juventus in early rounds in the late eighties that basically instigated the whole Champions League in the first place? I agree the Champions League is a complete bore. I only watch the Final. Unseeded draw with only Champions admitted is the only way to pull it back from the complete snooze fest that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Herman Hessian said: not about making it a competitive and capturing the imagination of proper fans is it - all about getting the minnows to f**k ASAP and the big clubs generating as much money as possible, maximum exposure, maximum brand awareness, maximum corporate partnering and product placement - obviously, it'd be utter shite and no-one sensible would be remotely interested, but as long as billions of asians tune in and pay the premium prices, UEFA don't and won't give a shiny shite... I think the Asian influence is strong in Premier League kick off times (hello early afternoon Saturday and Sunday) but the Champions League is not really a mass product in Asia in the same way. Kick off times here in Korea are about 4.45am, for example. The Europeans are to blame for the Champions League. If you subscribe to watch it on tv, you're the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Think the goals show on BT has salvaged the CL for me. It's a cracking show, and thus sets me up quite well for the knockouts when they come around. How I'd feel about the CL if that show didn't exist is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman Hessian Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, JTS98 said: I think the Asian influence is strong in Premier League kick off times (hello early afternoon Saturday and Sunday) but the Champions League is not really a mass product in Asia in the same way. Kick off times here in Korea are about 4.45am, for example. The Europeans are to blame for the Champions League. If you subscribe to watch it on tv, you're the problem. good point - hadn't thought of that; presumably Rakuten are hoping to position themselves as a global brand with their Barcelona deal, then, rather than strengthen their position on the home front... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Herman Hessian said: good point - hadn't thought of that; presumably Rakuten are hoping to position themselves as a global brand with their Barcelona deal, then, rather than strengthen their position on the home front... Probably both. Barcelona are obviously a very big deal in Asia. But the Champions League in general is just inaccessible to the average person because of the kick off times. It's one area where La Liga and Serie A can lose out to the Premier League. England loves an early kick off, and the early kick offs lead to prime time viewing in much of Asia on Saturday and Sunday. Take this coming weekend. Spurs v Arsenal is early on Saturday, Huddersfield v Bournemouth is early on Sunday and Newcastle v Man Utd is on at 2 on Sunday. In most of Asia those games will be on at pretty good kick off times and people will watch them in their homes or at bars. If I strolled down to my local on a Sunday night when I lived in KL, I'd always find a decent crowd watching whatever English game was on. Contrast that with Serie A and La Liga where big games are typically held on Saturday or Sunday evening, and you see where their Asian appeal will start to fade. When I lived in Poland, pubs would be full in the evening to watch Real Madrid or Barcelona. Occasionally big Italian games too. But outside Europe these games are inaccessible. Nobody in Malaysia is staying up till 4am on Sunday for a Real Madrid game, or 4am on a Monday for Milan v Juventus. But they will watch Leicester v Liverpool at 9pm and West Ham v Man Utd at 11pm. That's why the Premier League pulls in huge amounts of cash and the other leagues can't really compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 hour ago, JTS98 said: Contrast that with Serie A and La Liga where big games are typically held on Saturday or Sunday evening, and you see where their Asian appeal will start to fade. When I lived in Poland, pubs would be full in the evening to watch Real Madrid or Barcelona. Occasionally big Italian games too. But outside Europe these games are inaccessible. Nobody in Malaysia is staying up till 4am on Sunday for a Real Madrid game, or 4am on a Monday for Milan v Juventus. But they will watch Leicester v Liverpool at 9pm and West Ham v Man Utd at 11pm. That's why the Premier League pulls in huge amounts of cash and the other leagues can't really compete. You're making very valid points but there's more to Asia than the far/south east and there's way more to outside Europe than what's east of it. The appetite for football in Africa and the Americas is huge. There's no surprise that Spanish football's big games kick off at a time when the 400m+ Spanish speakers in the Americas can watch it. Perhaps the only time I've seen grown men cry was while living in remote Guatemala and Barcelona got skudded 4-0 in the Champions League semi. It was glorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said: You're making very valid points but there's more to Asia than the far/south east and there's way more to outside Europe than what's east of it. The appetite for football in Africa and the Americas is huge. There's no surprise that Spanish football's big games kick off at a time when the 400m+ Spanish speakers in the Americas can watch it. Perhaps the only time I've seen grown men cry was while living in remote Guatemala and Barcelona got skudded 4-0 in the Champions League semi. It was glorious. Personally I think it's gambling in Asia that drives it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 6 hours ago, JTS98 said: I could tell you every European Cup winner from inception right up till 2009 off the top of my head. Since then I'd need to think about it. They've killed it and made it a football competition for people who don't really like football. Like most top-level football these days. The big European games used to be special because they didn't happen very often. Now the big clubs play each other all the time, so there's no attraction. And the smaller clubs have essentially no chance of causing an upset, which was one of the things that made football so great in the past. They've taken two things that made it great and killed both of them. UEFA are dicks, the big clubs are dicks, people who watch the Champions League are dicks. That's it in a nutshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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