The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[D'Jaffo]

1 minute ago, diegomarahenry said:

I don't think you understood the point I was making and still don't

The point you were making wasn’t salient. It doesn’t matter how experienced Ashford is or how long he was at the club, he wasn’t good enough. 
 

You’re annoyed because we’re signing someone on loan who hasn’t played a senior game. Fair enough but that’s the reality of our situation. We’ve tried to bring better in and we’ve managed to get Rose who I’m guessing we’re hoping will go on a similar sort of trajectory as Dipo (he won’t but I think he’ll get a few goals). We’re at the arse end of the window and need another body up front. Constantly saying we need experience in is akin to shouting at the sky as it’s isn’t as simple as that. 
 

Ashford was plainly not good enough and wasn’t going to contribute much this season. He’s not a striker at this level and there’s no point in keeping him as a wide player with the options we currently have there. I’d far rather roll the dice on someone else and hope he does even slightly better than Ashford. 

[eez-eh]

9 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

could you highlight where in my post I said he was good?

 

Talk about pushing angles

You’re saying that the club replacing Ashford with a loan player from Middlesbrough means they’re “chucking it”. You must think Ashford was quite good then?

Was the club replacing the experienced duo of Fjortoft and Baird with the untried Alex Kirk a sign that they were “chucking it?”

Hilarious to see you telling someone else to get a grip on reality with the amount of hyperbolic nonsense you come out with.

[diegomarahenry]

Just now, D'Jaffo said:

The point you were making wasn’t salient. It doesn’t matter how experienced Ashford is or how long he was at the club, he wasn’t good enough. 
 

You’re annoyed because we’re signing someone on loan who hasn’t played a senior game. Fair enough but that’s the reality of our situation. We’ve tried to bring better in and we’ve managed to get Rose who I’m guessing we’re hoping will go on a similar sort of trajectory as Dipo (he won’t but I think he’ll get a few goals). We’re at the arse end of the window and need another body up front. Constantly saying we need experience in is akin to shouting at the sky as it’s isn’t as simple as that. 
 

Ashford was plainly not good enough and wasn’t going to contribute much this season. He’s not a striker at this level and there’s no point in keeping him as a wide player with the options we currently have there. I’d far rather roll the dice on someone else and hope he does even slightly better than Ashford. 

My point was that we got rid of a senior player who I am guessing was on a semi-decent wage and who his potential replacement could be, that maybe we are clearing more off the budget to get someone more experienced in plus some of the Dipo money. Unless we are clearing the budget to make ends meet and are taking a massive punt on a 21 year old to make up numbers in the hope he'll score goals. 

You have went off on your own tangent.  

[diegomarahenry]

5 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

You’re saying that the club replacing Ashford with a loan player from Middlesbrough means they’re “chucking it”. You must think Ashford was quite good then?

Was the club replacing the experienced duo of Fjortoft and Baird with the untried Alex Kirk a sign that they were “chucking it?”

Hilarious to see you telling someone else to get a grip on reality with the amount of hyperbolic nonsense you come out with.

Again, you have conjured up something you think I have meant and got angry about it, thats not my fault. 

[No_Problemo]

Not too bothered about signing a more unproven striker - I would be amazed if he isn’t better than Bryden and ultimately it’s to compete/back up Rose. 

The last midfield signing can’t be another unproven one though, as we can’t have an entire central midfield of them. 

ETA, Chalmers was the Ashford replacement - pretty happy with that one. As discussed last night, Ashford was primarily used as a wide midfielder last season…

Edited August 31, 2023 by No_Problemo

[Rb123]

Ahhhh good we're now at the stage where supporters are arguing amongst themselves 

[D'Jaffo]

1 minute ago, diegomarahenry said:

My point was that we got rid of a senior player who I am guessing was on a semi-decent wage and who his potential replacement could be, that maybe we are clearing more off the budget to get someone more experienced in plus some of the Dipo money. Unless we are clearing the budget to make ends meet and are taking a massive punt on a 21 year old to make up numbers in the hope he'll score goals. 

You have went off on your own tangent.  

You said we’re chucking it if we’re replacing Ashford with this young player. There is absolutely no evidence for what whatsoever. 
 

Ashford leaving will have freed up wages but some of that has potentially been spent elsewhere getting Chalmers in. Or helping bring in two midfielders that we hadn’t planned for. 

[diegomarahenry]

1 minute ago, D'Jaffo said:

You said we’re chucking it if we’re replacing Ashford with this young player. There is absolutely no evidence for what whatsoever. 
 

Ashford leaving will have freed up wages but some of that has potentially been spent elsewhere getting Chalmers in. Or helping bring in two midfielders that we hadn’t planned for. 

How is bringing in an untried player in on loan a sign of ambition or planning for the future when we know there aren't 10 goals a season out of two out of three of the front players we have? The third having not had a shot at goal in the league to date? 

 

[eez-eh]

3 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

Again, you have conjured up something you think I have meant and got angry about it, thats not my fault. 

You meant that the club was chucking it because they got rid of Ashford in favour of a loan player. Forgive me and others for filing that as hyperbolic nonsense.

Maybe the club have deduced that this guy is better than any of the “experienced” strikers still unattached at the end of August. Or maybe the alternatives have excessive wage demands.

He might end up being shit but him being young doesn’t mean he definitely will be.

[Iain]

Surely Chalmers *is* the Ashford replacement?

[No_Problemo]

4 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

How is bringing in an untried player in on loan a sign of ambition or planning for the future when we know there aren't 10 goals a season out of two out of three of the front players we have? The third having not had a shot at goal in the league to date? 

 

I’m not sure that Rose point can be used at this time - he came on against Inverness and had the ball fired in his general direction and actually did well in the air. Against Dundee United he didn’t receive the ball anywhere other than the half way like where he did well to get forward with the ball. He literally hasn’t had a single chance to shoot or had a chance created for him. 

[diegomarahenry]

2 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

You meant that the club was chucking it because they got rid of Ashford in favour of a loan player. Forgive me and others for filing that as hyperbolic nonsense.

Maybe the club have deduced that this guy is better than any of the “experienced” strikers still unattached at the end of August. Or maybe the alternatives have excessive wage demands.

He might end up being shit but him being young doesn’t mean he definitely will be.

You are talking Hyperbolic nonsense so here is some of my own. good strategy. 

I wasn't talking about individual players, I was talking about the situation as a whole. You seem to want a fight about it so you could maybe understand that part first. 

[Nelson]

We’ve signed too many unproven players.  That’s the bottom line for me.  Taking one or two risks when you have a reasonably settled core of players is one thing, but we’ve really gone too far.  But we’ve certainly made our bed - maybe it’ll all work out, or maybe it’s going to blow up in our face.  It’s pretty much a waiting game now.

[Trogdor]

59 minutes ago, Iain said:

Saw Barcelona started a sixteen year old at the weekend. Sometimes you just need to give good young players a chance instead of waiting on mythical and nebulous 'development'.

Correct. I'd be playing Watret at right back. He better start against Falkirk.

[diegomarahenry]

2 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

I’m not sure that Rose point can be used at this time - he came on against Inverness and had the ball fired in his general direction and actually did well in the air. Against Dundee United he didn’t receive the ball anywhere other than the half way like where he did well to get forward with the ball. He literally hasn’t had a single chance to shoot or had a chance created for him. 

I was actually cutting Rose some slack, he may come good but we have not seen anything yet. He's not got in to positions to receive balls or created space for himself but as a team we have created next to nothing in the league. Dipo was a joke figure coming out of the league cup groups last season with his finishing but was getting 5-10 opportunities a game, most of which he created himself. 

 Bryden is still a teenager who looks unpolished and McKenzie, regardless of what anyone thinks of him in general, doesn't have a lot of goals in him. 

[eez-eh]

3 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

You are talking Hyperbolic nonsense so here is some of my own. good strategy. 

I wasn't talking about individual players, I was talking about the situation as a whole. You seem to want a fight about it so you could maybe understand that part first. 

You literally were talking about individual players when you mentioned Ashford by name.

I’m not thrilled about things either but I also don’t twist every single wee thing that happens into meaning that the club is absolutely fucked.

Carry on if you want to double down though.

[No_Problemo]

2 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

I was actually cutting Rose some slack, he may come good but we have not seen anything yet. He's not got in to positions to receive balls or created space for himself but as a team we have created next to nothing in the league. Dipo was a joke figure coming out of the league cup groups last season with his finishing but was getting 5-10 opportunities a game, most of which he created himself. 

 Bryden is still a teenager who looks unpolished and McKenzie, regardless of what anyone thinks of him in general, doesn't have a lot of goals in him. 

Fair enough - I’m hoping we start to see what Rose is about (or not) this weekend. 
 

I would be interested to know how often we even touched the ball in the Dundee Utd final third so it was hard going for the forward players.!

3 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Correct. I'd be playing Watret at right back. He better start against Falkirk.

The only reason I am going to the Falkirk game is for the Ahui show so unfortunately Watret can’t start - give him thirty minutes… 

[AnonGuy7991]

6 minutes ago, Nelson said:

We’ve signed too many unproven players.  That’s the bottom line for me.  Taking one or two risks when you have a reasonably settled core of players is one thing, but we’ve really gone too far.  But we’ve certainly made our bed - maybe it’ll all work out, or maybe it’s going to blow up in our face.  It’s pretty much a waiting game now.

This 100%. Mathies moneyball vision of plucking gems from nowhere to fill voids isn’t sustainable long term.
 

There’s definitely room for the odd off the cuff signing ala Dipo where it’s successful- but in the Scottish championship, experience trumps almost everything. It’s a tough league, and proven players in this league command more money than lucky dips from elsewhere. It seems the club is going to continue down the moneyball route for the foreseeable 

[diegomarahenry]

5 minutes ago, Nelson said:

We’ve signed too many unproven players.  That’s the bottom line for me.  Taking one or two risks when you have a reasonably settled core of players is one thing, but we’ve really gone too far.  But we’ve certainly made our bed - maybe it’ll all work out, or maybe it’s going to blow up in our face.  It’s pretty much a waiting game now.

Getting it wrong so late in the window could be a disaster. Domestic loans will be a problem because Morton, Dunfermline, Inverness and Thistle will all be in the market for a few as well. 

[Nelson]

1 minute ago, diegomarahenry said:

I was actually cutting Rose some slack, he may come good but we have not seen anything yet. He's not got in to positions to receive balls or created space for himself but as a team we have created next to nothing in the league. Dipo was a joke figure coming out of the league cup groups last season with his finishing but was getting 5-10 opportunities a game, most of which he created himself. 

 Bryden is still a teenager who looks unpolished and McKenzie, regardless of what anyone thinks of him in general, doesn't have a lot of goals in him. 

I suppose it’s trying to pick through the bones of why Rose was so ineffective on Saturday.  Was it because Smith and Musonda were so hopeless in the middle of the park?  Did that stop Amartey and McGeady stretching Dundee Utd or having any real influence at all in the attacking third?  Was it because McKenzie was dreadful at holding the ball up or linking the play with anyone?  All that being said, could Rose have done more to affect the play?