scottsdad Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Granny Danger said: I’d imagine that there must be some non-financial commitments that the SNP government has made and not followed through on. Personally I’m struggling to think of anything of importance. That said until we have complete financial autonomy it is disingenuous to make criticism of the financially related ones. This has played in my mind since you posted it. You could take this argument to an extreme - why bother having targets set by the Scottish Government in areas such as poverty levels and climate change if they don't have the ability to deliver them? Taking it to an extreme, what is the point of having a Scottish Government of they cannot make any meaningful change? I get your point - that independence answers these questions. On that I agree. But the argument that the SNP has delivered on everything, except any areas requiring money, could cut both ways. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 19 minutes ago, scottsdad said: This has played in my mind since you posted it. You could take this argument to an extreme - why bother having targets set by the Scottish Government in areas such as poverty levels and climate change if they don't have the ability to deliver them? Taking it to an extreme, what is the point of having a Scottish Government of they cannot make any meaningful change? I get your point - that independence answers these questions. On that I agree. But the argument that the SNP has delivered on everything, except any areas requiring money, could cut both ways. Very few, if any, posters here (or anywhere else for that matter) are claiming that the SNP have delivered on absolutely everything. The fact that they win majorities in an electoral system designed not to provide majority governments (which I'm completely onboard with myself) suggests that they are delivering enough, certainly more than any of the opposition parties could achieve. A cynical observer might cynically observe that it wasn't really intended by it's initial beneficiaries to deliver any real change; but instead to help deliver Labour majorities in Westminster, where the real power ought to remain (in their eyes, not mine). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 2 hours ago, scottsdad said: This has played in my mind since you posted it. You could take this argument to an extreme - why bother having targets set by the Scottish Government in areas such as poverty levels and climate change if they don't have the ability to deliver them? Taking it to an extreme, what is the point of having a Scottish Government of they cannot make any meaningful change? I get your point - that independence answers these questions. On that I agree. But the argument that the SNP has delivered on everything, except any areas requiring money, could cut both ways. Yeah, some folk do that in place of realpolitik arguments. As an aside, and as many others have said, I cannot think of a single SNP supporter on here who is slavishly uncritical of them but I’d reiterate the following two points. Firstly, to criticise spending/budgetary decisions of the Scottish government without recognising the tax raising restrictions is totally disingenuous. Having some leeway over personal income tax is simply insufficient. Secondly, claiming to want Scottish Independence without being willing to vote for either the Greens or the SNP is also disingenuous. It’s like saying that you really want to win the lottery but that you won’t buy a ticket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 Of course I do. But all political parties make choices in government that means they don't always deliver what they say they will. I won't go in about the SNP's ones, but let's not deny that they exist. And not all are to do with lack of cash forthcoming from the UK. You missed the point.I'm talking about the Labour leadership historically binning policies because they didn't like them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 Imagine wanting to jail someone for a non violent protest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Clown Job said: Imagine wanting to jail someone for a non violent protest Jesus wept 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 19 hours ago, scottsdad said: Take one example - replacing council tax with a local income tax. This would generate money, was promised in 2007 and never happened. It was a shite idea and was actually a good idea it was shelved. Council tax needs replaced, but not by another top up hitting income. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 9 hours ago, Clown Job said: Imagine wanting to jail someone for a non violent protest If there's one thing that the massively overcrowded under-resourced prison service needs now it's more people given custodial sentences for the throwing of soup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 10 hours ago, Clown Job said: Imagine wanting to jail someone for a non violent protest That could easily be a Conservative MP speaking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 2 hours ago, renton said: It was a shite idea and was actually a good idea it was shelved. Council tax needs replaced, but not by another top up hitting income. If anyone can find a widely-acceptable alternative to the Council Tax, they should receive the thanks of a grateful nation and free tattie scones for life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 25 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: If anyone can find a widely-acceptable alternative to the Council Tax, they should receive the thanks of a grateful nation and free tattie scones for life. Indeed. There is no way to significantly reform the system without creating new winners and losers, therefore no politically palatable way of enacting it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Quitely Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 4 hours ago, Granny Danger said: That could easily be a Conservative MP speaking. There can no longer be any doubt as to which voting bloc Starmer is targeting, and it certainly isn't former Labour voters resident in Scotland. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said: If anyone can find a widely-acceptable alternative to the Council Tax, they should receive the thanks of a grateful nation and free tattie scones for life. You know how to motivate… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Don Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said: If anyone can find a widely-acceptable alternative to the Council Tax, they should receive the thanks of a grateful nation and free tattie scones for life. I am sure we could try a poll tax again! It didn’t cause many problems the last time it was introduced did it? Maybe they could implement it in Wales a year before the rest of the UK this time! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 55 minutes ago, Frank Quitely said: There can no longer be any doubt as to which voting bloc Starmer is targeting, and it certainly isn't former Labour voters resident in Scotland. It’s possible that in Scotland there will be a switch from disaffected Tories to Labour at the next GE, don’t see a SNP to Labour swing though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said: I am sure we could try a poll tax again! It didn’t cause many problems the last time it was introduced did it? Maybe they could implement it in Wales a year before the rest of the UK this time! No, no... What you want is to see how it operates in a large, cosmopolitan city, as that's where most folk live. Personally, I'd recommend London. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Don Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 8 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: No, no... What you want is to see how it operates in a large, cosmopolitan city, as that's where most folk live. Personally, I'd recommend London. I was living in London in the late 80s when it was introduced there. Many people I knew living in multi room bedsit type accommodation never bothered registering for it and also didn’t bother to register to vote either. In a few cases I knew the landlords put their tenants names forward and ‘community charge’ bills arrived in the post. I ended up living in the Wandsworth area as it had one of the lowest rates in The Smoke. The fact the Youngs Brewery was also there had no bearing on my decision whatsoever! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Rowley's about to get Keith to go full Dalek voice at him 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Labour are floating the ID cards pish again. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/labour-revives-id-cards-idea-reduce-irregular-immigration-stephen-kinnock 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Labour are floating the ID cards pish again. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/08/labour-revives-id-cards-idea-reduce-irregular-immigration-stephen-kinnockTwo cheeks of the same arse. You would think their strategists (I know, I know) would at least have the sense to not float identical policies as the blue cheek simultaneously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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