What is the point of Labour ?

[oneteaminglasgow]

In terms of politicians who I believe mean what they say then I’ll go for Jeremy Corbyn, irrespective of whether you agree with him or not. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by oneteaminglasgow

[StellarHibee]

Just now, RuMoore said:

They're electable for a start...

Is that it? Become electable at any cost, even if it means simply becoming the very thing you're replacing?

[StellarHibee]

1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

In terms of politicians who I believe mean what they say then I’ll go for Jeremy Corbyn, irrespective of whether you agree with him or not. 

Honest to a fault. So no real surprise that he's viewed as an enemy of the media and the tits in the general public who swallow the headlines.

[RuMoore]

2 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Again, I’m not trying to be a dick, but so what? If all that changes is the rosette on the guy imposing austerity, then what’s the fucking point? 

I don't think that's all that will change, I don't agree with the premise Labour are the same as the Tories, I've said previously how using this sort of logic you can shove all the major political parties into the same group. 

As another posted mentioned above the whole green element of Labours current proposals is relatively exciting and something we won't see with the Tories. 

[RuMoore]

4 minutes ago, GAD said:

Don't really trust any of them right now tbh, but with Starmer he has proven beyond any doubt he's a liar so is proven untrustworthy so deserves no benefit of the doubt.

So you're drawing a willy on your ballot paper I take it?

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 minute ago, RuMoore said:

As another posted mentioned above the whole green element of Labours current proposals is relatively exciting and something we won't see with the Tories. 

We won’t see it with Labour either. Some VL from the policy exchange will oppose it and Starmer will abandon it.

[StellarHibee]

2 minutes ago, RuMoore said:

So you're drawing a willy on your ballot paper I take it?

I'll draw you a portrait.

[RuMoore]

Just now, oneteaminglasgow said:

We won’t see it with Labour either. Some VL from the policy exchange will oppose it and Starmer will abandon it.

So just to confirm everything is Tory unless we mention things that aren't Tory then we'll just say they're lying anyway. 

You'll perhaps understand why this seems a bit of a futile exercise for me.

[StellarHibee]

Just now, RuMoore said:

So just to confirm everything is Tory unless we mention things that aren't Tory then we'll just say they're lying anyway. 

You'll perhaps understand why this seems a bit of a futile exercise for me.

The u-turns would suggest that he was lying?

[oneteaminglasgow]

Just now, RuMoore said:

So just to confirm everything is Tory unless we mention things that aren't Tory then we'll just say they're lying anyway. 

You'll perhaps understand why this seems a bit of a futile exercise for me.

The problem you have to contend with is that Starmer got elected in 2020 on a pledge to essentially maintain a lot of the policy platform of Corbyn, because it was (and is) popular with large chunks of the public. Since then, he’s abandoned every single pledge and purged as many left wing Labour members as he possibly can. So aye, I don’t believe a fucking word he says, and the fact that so many Labour frontbenchers are willing to now back policies they previously called abhorrent suggests to me that it’s all a game to them, and all that matters is that they should be in power, not the Tories. Not because they fundamentally disagree with what they’re doing, but because it’s not them doing it.

[picklish]

From their mission statement

Highest sustained growth in the G7. 

"Introducing clear fiscal rules with a new enhanced role for the Office of Budget Responsibility. "

Not spending frivolously on The Poor's. Effectively austerity?

"We will provide long-term, catalytic public investment to unlock private capital, and change regulations to remove barriers. We will make Britain the best place to start and grow a new business"

i.e. sell public services / PFI and lower taxes for Amazon et al?

"Making Brexit work by closing the holes in the government’s Brexit deal, cutting the red tape hampering some of our leading industries."

 Not clear what or how. Northern Ireland? Imports/Exports? 

other stuff seems reasonable, e.g. green prosperity, national wealth fund - but like many others, I think Starmer is almost as untrustworthy as Boris, and equally has no ideological beliefs, so I don't believe Labours positions aren't changeable, and that's before thinking about the execution of the plans

[Donathan]

35 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Again, I’m not trying to be a dick, but so what? If all that changes is the rosette on the guy imposing austerity, then what’s the fucking point? 

We haven’t had austerity in the UK for nearly a decade.

[oneteaminglasgow]

3 minutes ago, Donathan said:

We haven’t had austerity in the UK for nearly a decade.

I think we can leave it here. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

5 hours ago, Donathan said:

 

Assuming Starmer gets into power he will absolutely pivot to the centre left once he actually gets in 

He won't.

[StellarHibee]

17 minutes ago, Donathan said:

We haven’t had austerity in the UK for nearly a decade.

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, picklish said:

From their mission statement

Highest sustained growth in the G7. 

"Introducing clear fiscal rules with a new enhanced role for the Office of Budget Responsibility. "

Not spending frivolously on The Poor's. Effectively austerity?

"We will provide long-term, catalytic public investment to unlock private capital, and change regulations to remove barriers. We will make Britain the best place to start and grow a new business"

i.e. sell public services / PFI and lower taxes for Amazon et al?

"Making Brexit work by closing the holes in the government’s Brexit deal, cutting the red tape hampering some of our leading industries."

 Not clear what or how. Northern Ireland? Imports/Exports? 

other stuff seems reasonable, e.g. green prosperity, national wealth fund - but like many others, I think Starmer is almost as untrustworthy as Boris, and equally has no ideological beliefs, so I don't believe Labours positions aren't changeable, and that's before thinking about the execution of the plans

I've yet to hear any examples from either Labour or Tory about what this "cutting the red tape" actually means.

Decades of experience tells me that the Tories mean things like staff cuts, service reductions, reductions in working conditions and worsening employment protection and so on*.  Starmer talk about things like "reform" which to me is just the same as the Tories but using a different description. If Starmer would actually say what he was going to do, then Labour supporters might have grounds for optimism but as things stand it's just the sound of static.

(*The cynic in me translates this as intentionally running important services into the ground so that they can eventually say that the public provisions don't deliver for the country and then sell them off.)

[GAD]

3 hours ago, RuMoore said:

So you're drawing a willy on your ballot paper I take it?

Maybe. Is it worse than voting for a proven liar, who has broken every promise he's mad and believes in power at any cost?

Considering you fully accept that Starmer is a liar who cannot be trusted, why do you think voting for him is such a good thing?

[RuMoore]

12 minutes ago, GAD said:

Maybe. Is it worse than voting for a proven liar, who has broken every promise he's mad and believes in power at any cost?

Considering you fully accept that Starmer is a liar who cannot be trusted, why do you think voting for him is such a good thing?

 

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, Donathan said:

We haven’t had austerity in the UK for nearly a decade.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

3 hours ago, Donathan said:

We'vd had austerity in the UK for over a decade.

FTFY