Big Rider Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Steelly said: The UK will not sink. Scotland on it's own would imo. It is not against our wishes. We had a vote and even now with all that has happened the yes vote has not increased, thankfully. The UK is sinking. Isolated itself from Europe. No pal in the Old US of A. Can't provide any infrastructure improvements. A rudderless political class influenced by billionaires who can't serve the populations needs. I wish my country to leave the sinking ship. Now is the time. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cheese Posted February 13 Popular Post Share Posted February 13 That weird genre of unionist who thinks the Scottish government shouldn't be the government of a sovereign state, but should have the accountability of one. 29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, Steelly said: No evidence, just my opinion. As a Union we are stronger and I think things will change for the better soon. Anyway, I have things to do, thank you all for not being abusive,I appreciate that. As a union it is unbelievablylopsided towards one side. And it isnt Scotland. But, hey, if you want to live under the heel of Westminster the best of luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, Steelly said: We do. We vote as the UK. No we don't. We vote in 650 individual FPTP elections. Last time around, the Tories got 56.2% of the seats on 43.6% of the vote. Westminster is undemocratic, and will remain so whilst FPTP decides the results. Edited February 13 by lichtgilphead 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 22 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said: No we don't. We vote in 650 individual FPTP elections. Last time around, the Tories got 56.2% of the seats on 43.6% of the vote. Westminster is undemocratic, and will remain so whilst FPTP decides the results. What percentage of the seats did the SNP get and on what percentage of the vote (7.4%/3.9%)? It is a lot less democratic than the outcome for the Tory party. The same applies even if you look purely at the Scottish electorate (45% of the vote, 81% of the seats). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, strichener said: What percentage of the seats did the SNP get and on what percentage of the vote (7.4%/3.9%)? It is a lot less democratic than the outcome for the Tory party. The same applies even if you look purely at the Scottish electorate (45% of the vote, 81% of the seats). I don't think anyone disputes that though? And Holyrood has some form of PR, which Scotland would presumably use in the event of independence being secured. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, Salvo Montalbano said: I don't think anyone disputes that though? And Holyrood has some form of PR, which Scotland would presumably use in the event of independence being secured. Just pointing out how ridiculous it is to use the Tories as an example of how undemocratic it is when the SNP were the main beneficiary of the FPTP system. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 And.......wow ... there goes another one! Prospective MP bites dust - the sequel. From the Independent... "A second Labour parliamentary candidate has been suspended over comments made about Israel in a private meeting of Labour activists in Lancashire. It is understood that the party has suspended Graham Jones, its candidate for Hyndburn, after a recording emerged of him referring to “fucking Israel” and saying that Britons who fight for the Israel Defense Forces should be “locked up”." Never underestimate the ability of the Labour Party to feck things up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, strichener said: What percentage of the seats did the SNP get and on what percentage of the vote (7.4%/3.9%)? It is a lot less democratic than the outcome for the Tory party. The same applies even if you look purely at the Scottish electorate (45% of the vote, 81% of the seats). So, you agree with the main thrust of my post - the fact that the UK Government is elected by an undemocratic method. The rest of your post is just your usual contrarian mewling - the SNP are not in power at Westminster. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 47 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: And.......wow ... there goes another one! Prospective MP bites dust - the sequel. From the Independent... "A second Labour parliamentary candidate has been suspended over comments made about Israel in a private meeting of Labour activists in Lancashire. It is understood that the party has suspended Graham Jones, its candidate for Hyndburn, after a recording emerged of him referring to “fucking Israel” and saying that Britons who fight for the Israel Defense Forces should be “locked up”." Never underestimate the ability of the Labour Party to feck things up. Starmer should resign, the fish rots from the head down, institutionally antisemitic etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 More tha a whiff of a "Kinnock" in the air right now when it comes to Labour 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, lichtgilphead said: So, you agree with the main thrust of my post - the fact that the UK Government is elected by an undemocratic method. The rest of your post is just your usual contrarian mewling - the SNP are not in power at Westminster. Yes I agree that the SNP are the most over represented party at Westminster. I also think you need to look up the definition of contrarian. Edited February 13 by strichener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Graham Jones was right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 15 minutes ago, strichener said: Yes I agree that the SNP are the most over represented party at Westminster. I also think you need to look up the definition of contrarian. Strange that "the most over represented party at Wesrmnister" are in favour of scrapping FPTP, isn't it? It's only the Blue Tories & the Red Tories that want to retain it. Do you think that this has something to do with the fact that one or the other of them (or both) have participated in every government since World War 1? In addition, both of them have had plenty opportunity to change this undemocratic system. The SNP haven't. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said: And.......wow ... there goes another one! Prospective MP bites dust - the sequel. From the Independent... "A second Labour parliamentary candidate has been suspended over comments made about Israel in a private meeting of Labour activists in Lancashire. It is understood that the party has suspended Graham Jones, its candidate for Hyndburn, after a recording emerged of him referring to “fucking Israel” and saying that Britons who fight for the Israel Defense Forces should be “locked up”." Never underestimate the ability of the Labour Party to feck things up. Seems as if Labour HQ is in Tel Aviv nowadays. When does Sir Keir take up his seat in the Knesset? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Highlandmagar said: Seems as if Labour HQ is in Tel Aviv nowadays. When does Sir Keir take up his seat in the Knesset? Alan Cochrane wrote in The Telegraph recently that Humza Yousaf was acting like First Minister for Gaza. Just reversing that for Starmer gives us Alan Cochrane-level analysis and we should aim for better than that. Starmer doesn't give a toss about Israel or Israelis. His sole aim with his words and actions related to Israel is, like with most issues, to appease the UK ownership class because he needs their consent to become the next PM. Edited February 13 by Freedom Farter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) About what Graham Jones said, the easy option is the one that's been taken, to censure him and therefore stigmatise the issue he raised, ensuring no further conversation can be had about it. It needs looked at, though. The BBC report pointed out that dual nationals may serve in the armed forces of their non-UK nationality. That's an issue straight away as Israel uniquely offers citizenship to foreign nationals from their birth, so long as they've a claim to being Jewish which Israel accepts (some are rejected, such as Nigerian Igbo Jews). This sees Israel aiming propaganda in UK, USA, France and elsewhere to groom Jewish boys in those nations into moving to Israel and joining the IDF once they turn 18. Also, does this rule really apply to all UK dual nationals? For example, can Russian-Brits go now and fight in Ukraine for Russia then return unimpeded? I've no idea but I'd be a bit surprised. What of folk whose family heritage corresponds with a stateless people? Such as the Kurds. This Kurdish-Brit was jailed for going to Iraq to fight for a Kurdish milita against ISIS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silhan_Özçelik. Then there's volunteers. Are Brits without Ukrainian nationality who go to fight for the Ukrainian armed forces being jailed as terrorists when they return, like Silhan Ozcelik was? I haven't checked this but I assume not. This woman, an ethnic Brit with no Kurdish heritage, went to Syria to fight for a Kurdish militia against ISIS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Campbell. There was no suggestion of her being charged with terrorism had she returned but why I bring it up is that Turkey killed her not ISIS. So a Turkish-Brit could've legally been in Syria killing Brits who were fighting against ISIS (Turkey were in a de facto alliance with ISIS in Syria). Edited February 13 by Freedom Farter 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Graham Jones is a proper right wing nutjob as well, the type of Labour member in the Ian Austin camp who makes David Cameron look like Michael Foot. He has himself, like Starmer, explicitly stated that Israel committing war crimes is okay. And yet, here we are. There absolutely is a point to be made that anyone going on a jolly abroad to partake in some ethnic cleansing should be arrested and tried for it, but I'm enjoying seeing the worst people in Labour trying and failing to get the toothpaste back in the tube. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Remarkable argument here: fundamentally, if a left-winger was saying this it would be terrible, but he's right-wing so it's fine. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 He's right though So criticism of Israel, even a swear word, is antisemitism They are currently genuinely ethnic cleansing Do the uk Jewish lobby groups expect no criticism Although is amusing starmer getting caught in the very trap he set for corbyn were there was also barely any genuine antisemitism within the party, 0.01 % of the membership by metric of complaints made against them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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