The Gifted Sub Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Addiction isn't a health issue. It's a choice.Of all the daft things ever posted on this site, this is probably the daftest.Have a fucking word, man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: Well they'd probably say if they have an inherent destructive nature why are you leaving them to rot and repeat the exact same thing again. Or do you just want to lock them all up? Euthanasia? Which part of inherent are you not getting? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 If you are ever robbed or mugged by a junkie, and have to face some very painful consequences as a result, then that's just tough. I'd absolve that particular junkie of all blame associated to the robbing and or mugging. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Which part of inherent are you not getting? Being inherently predisposed to addiction doesn't mean you can't control the impulse with the correct support and treatment. A combination of inherited and outside social factors might push you into that hole, but it requires a wider intervention to get you back out of the hole to a degree where you can function. Throwing the book at people when they are in the bottom of the hole will not help get them out, nor will it serve to prevent them committing further crimes to further their addiction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 49 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Read this thread. There are plenty of posts attempting to direct blame away from junkies. Apparently inherent destructive impulses are the latest to blame. No. I've been reading the thread. You made the claim that folk are trying to absolve junkies of all blame, I asked you to back that up and you can't. There are plenty of posts giving reasons as to how people become junkies, but none of those posts say that the person themselves isn't partly to blame. 29 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: If it wasn't a choice we'd all be addicts. Or none of us would be. You clearly don't understand what addiction is. It's not the same for everyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, renton said: Being inherently predisposed to addiction doesn't mean you can't control the impulse with the correct support and treatment. A combination of inherited and outside social factors might push you into that hole, but it requires a wider intervention to get you back out of the hole to a degree where you can function. Throwing the book at people when they are in the bottom of the hole will not help get them out, nor will it serve to prevent them committing further crimes to further their addiction. So these impulses simultaneously can and can't be controlled? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: I've been reading the thread. You made the claim that folk are trying to absolve junkies of all blame, I asked you to back that up and you can't. There are plenty of posts giving reasons as to how people become junkies, but none of those posts say that the person themselves isn't partly to blame. You clearly don't understand what addiction is. It's not the same for everyone. I haven't seen many posts where it's said that the individual is entirely to blame. I have seen plenty of posts where the intent is to deflect from this. I think most people understand what addiction is. It's a voluntary thing. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said: So these impulses simultaneously can and can't be controlled? The point being that the decision to quit is insufficient in of itself in many cases. Support is required, medical help is required, a change in circumstance is required. Hope is required. Withput these the destructive behaviour will likely continue and even beyond that the impulses that lead to addiction do not go away. Simply that people who come out the other end have a far greater awareness of themselves and their triggers and seek actively to avoid them. Typically that awareness is missing when people get into a destructive cycle of behaviour. Or are so desperate that they simply take any out they can find. Dependency follows. It is not voluntary. This is accepted medical fact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: I haven't seen many posts where it's said that the individual is entirely to blame. I have seen plenty of posts where the intent is to deflect from this. I think most people understand what addiction is. It's a voluntary thing. You could just say "I can't provide you with the post you're requesting as it doesn't exist" and this would be much easier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Moonster said: You could just say "I can't provide you with the post you're requesting as it doesn't exist" and this would be much easier. Sure. But I thought you'd prefer facts. Apologies if I'm wrong. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Sure. But I thought you'd prefer facts. Apologies if I'm wrong. I love facts. The facts show that the "War on Drugs" is a failure and you're an advocate of waging an even bigger war on drugs, despite no evidence that this actually works. I can point you towards Portugal and the decriminalisation studies they've done if you'd like facts on a policy that does actually work, if you'd like? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin' Kev Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Ironically enough (and assuming he's actually being serious), Tibbermoresaint is airing views like a person currently suffering from addiction or is about to quite soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: I love facts. The facts show that the "War on Drugs" is a failure and you're an advocate of waging an even bigger war on drugs, despite no evidence that this actually works. I can point you towards Portugal and the decriminalisation studies they've done if you'd like facts on a policy that does actually work, if you'd like? I love facts too. Here are some facts for you. Being a junkie is a choice. Individuals are responsible for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. Junkies are responsible for a lot of crime. To get rid of that crime we need to get rid of junkies. You don't get rid of junkies by decriminalising drugs. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I’m all for new ways of looking at addiction and drug issues and I agree that it should be viewed as a mental health problem but the second a junkie commits a crime against me I don’t give a f**k about their mental health and would want to see them punished to the full extent of the law. Imagined being mugged at knife point by a drug addict and going home thinking “oh that poor soul having to do something like that to feed their addiction” it wouldn’t happen and has never happened to anyone who has ever been on the receiving end of a junkies crime so Tibbermoresaint does have a point despite clearly being a c**t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Individuals are responsible for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. Leaving aside the rest of the stuff you’ve posted, do you believe that people’s actions take place in a vacuum, or do you think that people’s actions are shaped and informed by the circumstances which they find themselves in and life experiences which they’ve had? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said: You don't get rid of junkies by decriminalising drugs. Eh, yes you do. Honestly, go and read some info on it. 1 minute ago, throbber said: I’m all for new ways of looking at addiction and drug issues and I agree that it should be viewed as a mental health problem but the second a junkie commits a crime against me I don’t give a f**k about their mental health and would want to see them punished to the full extent of the law. Imagined being mugged at knife point by a drug addict and going home thinking “oh that poor soul having to do something like that to feed their addiction” it wouldn’t happen and has never happened to anyone who has ever been on the receiving end of a junkies crime so Tibbermoresaint does have a point despite clearly being a c**t. He would have a point if anyone at all, at any point in this thread, said that junkies should be absolved of the crimes they commit. If they commit crimes then they deserve punishment for it - addiction does not excuse that, but if they have an addiction they deserve support to get out of that addiction as well. I have no idea why people are struggling with the difference there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Leaving aside the rest of the stuff you’ve posted, do you believe that people’s actions take place in a vacuum, or do you think that people’s actions are shaped and informed by the circumstances which they find themselves in and life experiences which they’ve had? I believe people are individuals who have responsibility for their own actions and have the ability to differentiate right from wrong. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Eh, yes you do. Honestly, go and read some info on it. He would have a point if anyone at all, at any point in this thread, said that junkies should be absolved of the crimes they commit. If they commit crimes then they deserve punishment for it - addiction does not excuse that, but if they have an addiction they deserve support to get out of that addiction as well. I have no idea why people are struggling with the difference there. Does Portugal have junkies? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I believe people are individuals who have responsibility for their own actions and have the ability to differentiate right from wrong. That’s not what I asked.Do you think that people’s actions are, to at least some extent, shaped by the society they find themselves in and their experiences of it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said: That’s not what I asked. Do you think that people’s actions are, to at least some extent, shaped by the society they find themselves in and their experiences of it? I think these would form part of a thought-process but I don't see it should shape their actions. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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