Tibbermoresaint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Moomintroll said: 3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: This country's fucked. Completely and utterly fucked. It is with people like you in it. Some people get upset when I call others snowflakes. So I won't. Can we just take it as read that you are? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: What about anyone else who commits a crime? Are you saying there is no rehabilitation from crime? If that is what you are saying, then you are a moron. If you are saying that only drug related crimes, perpetrated by people whom you have acknowledged may be in that state, at least partly, becauee of medical issues, are irredeemable, then you....... well..... yoy are a moron. Hmm You're making no sense. I think it's because you're a moron. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, oaksoft said: There is a difference between correlation and cause/effect. Poverty doesn't explain the epidemic levels of cocaine abuse in the middle and upper classes where poverty is absent. Drug use transcends poverty, mental illness and psychological trauma. Cocaine and heroin are vastly different in price and are taken for vastly different reasons so that's a bit of a daft comparison. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: I had no idea Rodrigo Duterte and Competitive Dad off the Fast Show had P&B accounts Blue riband? Stale digestive at best. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I have a responsibility to society as a whole. Junkies place themselves outside that society.That’s up there with “addiction is a choice” for me. Absolutely fucking wild. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just now, oneteaminglasgow said: That’s up there with “addiction is a choice” for me. Absolutely fucking wild. Well, jog off then. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: That all sounds fine and dandy. What if it isn't safe to do so? If it's not safe to do so then we obviously don't give them the opportunity. Just now, oaksoft said: I would agree with that first sentence in principle but there are caveats. For example, do repeat criminals deserve equal opportunities with law abiding citizens? I'll use a driving analogy here - if you lose your licence and want to drive again when your ban is up then you need to resit a more rigorous test to prove that you're deserving of the opportunity to drive again. I'm not saying we sit a recovering junkie in a room with a bag of smack and see if he takes it, but generally repeat offenders should need to prove they are suitable for engaging with society again, in my opinion. Once they've done that, mon in, the waters lovely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverton End Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Addiction is an illness, from shopping to gambling to heroin. Certain people have addictive personas. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just now, ali_91 said: Learn to have some empathy, some humanity and a little less hate in your heart. Better yourself. As you say, we all have choices, choose to be less of a c**t. X There's no hate in my heart. Only hope. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Silverton End said: Addiction is an illness, from shopping to gambling to heroin. Certain people have addictive personas. Nope. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: OK. In that case I don't know what I would personally do. I'm not convinced I would get involved unless they asked directly for help. That tends to be my default position on any difficulties people I know get themselves into. I don't see it as the place of one human to interfere in the life of another unless that second person is doing harm to others or unless that second person is incapable of genuinely looking after themselves. People with learning difficulties or disabilities or illness would come into that last category. Drug abuse wouldn't IMO. I don't consider addiction as mental illness though so that might explain my thought process. Tibbermore is behaving like a dick on this issue but I agree that drug taking is a choice and that addiction is also a choice. Those who help other break addiction allude to this when they say you that the addict has to WANT to go clean for rehab to work. In other words, the addict has to choose to go clean. That is not how illnesses work. I suppose that's where we differ. I would absolutely step in if I saw my kid or my pal burrowing into a drug hole, if they refused that help I still wouldn't give up. I agree that an addict needs to want to come off it for it work, but if an addict doesn't see themselves with a problem they won't agree to coming off anything. I think there's grounds to say that a drug addict has a mental illness. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Moonster said: I think there's grounds to say that a drug addict has a mental illness. Incredible. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moomintroll Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Some people get upset when I call others snowflakes. So I won't. Can we just take it as read that you are?I don't think Conservative voting Brexiteers are allowed to be snowflakes tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Moomintroll said: 20 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Some people get upset when I call others snowflakes. So I won't. Can we just take it as read that you are? I don't think Conservative voting Brexiteers are allowed to be snowflakes tbh. You think wrongly. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, MixuFixit said: Being a nice member of society is indeed a choice. As is spending hours trolling P&B I guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moomintroll Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 You think wrongly.Well if you say so then I must have been right in the first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just now, Moomintroll said: 3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: You think wrongly. Well if you say so then I must have been right in the first place. You're trying far too hard. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin.Hood Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 [emoji23] You're trying far too hard.You are responding to absolutely everything. You say you have hope , we know this is a lie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Tibbermore is behaving like a dick on this issue but I agree that drug taking is a choice and that addiction is also a choice. Those who help other break addiction allude to this when they say you that the addict has to WANT to go clean for rehab to work. In other words, the addict has to choose to go clean. That is not how illnesses work.This is staggeringly ignorant. I agree that choosing to go down the route of taking drugs is a choice. The reasons why folk do it have been done to death on here so there's no point in giving my views on it. But to say addiction is a choice is just completely wrong. Physical addiction is a real thing. The body craves the fix. If the person woke up the next day and decided "right, no more drugs". They couldn't get up and carry on a normal day, the body would need the hit. Just look at withdrawal effects on any health website. Are you seriously suggesting the person chooses to have these symptoms? It gets to a point the person wants a hit as much to get rid of the physical withdrawal symptoms than the (likely) psychological problems that made them start in the first place. You're right in that people do have to want to go clean but that's because they need to be in a place where they are going to be able to first get over the struggle of withdrawal and then be able to deal with the problems that made them start in the first place. Babies born to drug addicts will be on methadone programmes a lot of the time because their bodies are addicted. If addiction wasn't a real thing can you give your thoughts on why this happens? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Bairnardo said: 1 hour ago, Dee Man said: I can sympathise with anyone who ends up a user for escapism due to being sexually abused or any other traumatic experiences that they'd rather block out but lets not pretend every junkie is a victim of a terrible childhood. Purely anecdotal, but when we were growing up one of our mates had a brother who was a skaghead - the guy was a state. We told our mate to avoid taking that route at all costs as his brother started regularly offering him 'a fix' but unfortunately he ended up following the same path. This in turn led to his easily influenced best mate getting hooked as well. Both of these guys came from stable backgrounds and were well warned by their peers of the consequences which they were already well aware of anyway. I was talking to his girlfriend one day who said he came home with a black bin bag which she later went through and found a load of stolen goods including war medals. She broke up with him, all of us told him to do one and he left town soon after. He's dead now after deliberately taking an overdose while his brother who got him into it is still alive. Obviously there is no way to calculate the percentage of junkies who have chosen to do so for escapism linked to trauma and those who have chosen to out of boredom but I'm quite uneasy seeing junkies getting labelled as victims of society when that is not always the case. Once someone tries heroin for the buzz, they can then become victims of the illness that is addiction. It doesnt have to be one or the other. The other person saying its one or the other is tibbermoresaint, who in doing so is making a raging arse of himself. Really? Just for coming on here and expressing his opinion? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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