Drug deaths in Scotland hit record high

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

23 minutes ago, virginton said:

It's an index of multiple deprivation and so includes other metrics like education and geography (public transport links as well as 'distance to a GP'). It therefore isn't a precise measurement of socio-economic deprivation, although it's better than none at all. 

 

13 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Aye there's a few bits for Perth that stuck out to me, and some which were sadly predictable. Think it's as VT says, and there's always little things it can't take into account. CBA to go back to see if it's still the case but remember the area around the South Inch up into nice enough parts of craigie used to be pretty bad in these but the prison being there has a huge impact 

Aye, think it’s an anomaly really as the main aspect which seems to be dragging it down is ‘crime’ for which that area scores a 1, i.e. the worst possible which is a bit ridiculous. Also the old person’s part of Gannochy has a 10 for employment and an 8 for income (pensioners in rented houses), versus 3 & 7 for Kinnoull Hill respectively. 

Fair enough that it does give you a reasonable general overview though.
 

 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

8 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

 

Aye, think it’s an anomaly really as the main aspect which seems to be dragging it down is ‘crime’ for which that area scores a 1, i.e. the worst possible which is a bit ridiculous. Also the old person’s part of Gannochy has a 10 for employment and an 8 for income (pensioners in rented houses), versus 3 & 7 for Kinnoull Hill respectively. 

Fair enough that it does give you a reasonable general overview though.
 

 

Yeah, it's a good overall measure. There's regional discrepancies and general ones as well. The town is down as being very deprived despite the access to services etc, but a lot of that is down to crime which I imagine is largely skewed by stuff which wouldn't effect your day to day life like shoplifting and fights/folk getting lifted for having drugs on them at closing time. I imagine that's the same for most city centres

Edited August 3, 2022 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[vikingTON]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, this.

It doesn't measure wealth, it measures the extent of different aspects of deprivation.

It's useful in that it does highlight deprivation and the bulk of it would conform roughly to how most of us would view areas we know.  A close inspection will, however, also reveal some anomalies that seem crazy.  

It does better as a metric in poorer areas than in wealthier ones if that makes sense.  More of the anomalies will appear in the latter.

I'd disagree about the anomalies being more apparent in wealthier areas, because relative purchasing power isn't accounted for. That is a key point in understanding whether and how deprivation is experienced in a community. Above all, the cost of housing is not accounted for in the SIMD at all.

For example, a person with a £20k per year job would count as well below average in terms of national income levels and might fall into the 'deprived' income category. But if a flat in the local area costs £40k rather than £100k or £150k (with smaller but linked differences in rent) then there is a huge difference in housing access, monthly costs and quality of life that is not reflected by the data.

It's very useful for understanding differences at the micro, neighbourhood level as well as highlighting the broadest-scale inequalities like poor health, education and skills gaps. It provides an incomplete picture of socio-economic deprivation though. 

[SuperSaints1877]

Report from record drug deaths in Wales. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62393799

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

CBA to go back to see if it's still the case but remember the area around the South Inch up into nice enough parts of craigie used to be pretty bad in these but the prison being there has a huge impact 

I'm not sure that the presence of a prison would impact on SIMD data.  I'm struggling to see how it would.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'm not sure that the presence of a prison would impact on SIMD data.  I'm struggling to see how it would.

Hmmm, could be me misremembering or just local rumour but of was certainly talked about in Perth a few years back as being the reason. I don't know the areas particularly well but it's pretty stark if you look at it the areas closest to the prison vs those one step removed. 

Actually yeah just looked at it again and the areas right next to the prison are in the most deprived 10% for crime and I'd be surprised if that was based on something outside that, being in fairly quiet residential areas

Edited August 3, 2022 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Hmmm, could be me misremembering or just local rumour but of was certainly talked about in Perth a few years back as being the reason. I don't know the areas particularly well but it's pretty stark if you look at it the areas closest to the prison vs those one step removed. 

Actually yeah just looked at it again and the areas right next to the prison are in the most deprived 10% for crime and I'd be surprised if that was based on something outside that, being in fairly quiet residential areas

Ok, but I live literally 50 yards from a prison and I was in Decile 8 last time I looked.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

5 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Ok, but I live literally 50 yards from a prison and I was in Decile 8 last time I looked.

I've no idea then, maybe it's all the kids in the skate park getting ASBOs or a thriving thievery scene at the harbour because there's not really any other explanation I can think of for the area in question to have the 43rd highest level of crime in the country

Edited August 3, 2022 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[ICTChris]

Could crimes committed inside the prison skew the figures? So if someone was to get stabbed or get caught with drugs it would be recorded as occurring in that area?

I used to live a stones throw from HMP Edinburgh and according to SIMD that was a high crime area. There were a few thefts etc that I recall during the years we lived there but nothing major. Not exactly scientific of course.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

3 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Could crimes committed inside the prison skew the figures? So if someone was to get stabbed or get caught with drugs it would be recorded as occurring in that area?

I used to live a stones throw from HMP Edinburgh and according to SIMD that was a high crime area. There were a few thefts etc that I recall during the years we lived there but nothing major. Not exactly scientific of course.

I think that's the most likely explanation yeah. #PrisonersArePeople too, and in fact looking at the exact statistical area there's not many houses there so don't think it would get up to the population level without including the prison population. It's essentially the prison, a big chunk of the park, the harbour and a big Tesco 

[ICTChris]

Just now, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I think that's the most likely explanation yeah. #PrisonersArePeople too, and in fact looking at the exact statistical area there's not many houses there so don't think it would get up to the population level without including the prison population. It's essentially the prison, a big chunk of the park, the harbour and a big Tesco 

HMP Shotts is quite isolated I think - I just looked it up and it's scores a 1 for crime.  I can't imagine that there are a huge volume of crimes in rural Lanarkshire so it must be that.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

5 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

HMP Shotts is quite isolated I think - I just looked it up and it's scores a 1 for crime.  I can't imagine that there are a huge volume of crimes in rural Lanarkshire so it must be that.

There we go then, @Monkey Tennis's example is then quite confusing. 

[SuperSaints1877]

Are we not deviating slightly from the topic at hand?

It would be great to debate how our society reduces the death rate rather than focus on areas of poverty. We all know areas where we live and work where there are such issues. 

A lot of deaths must be related to people who have unfortunately succumbed to homelessness.

Ideally an independent Scotland moving forward could look to provide better employment opportunities and tackle the food bank crisis. We need ways to get people out of work back into engaging in society rather than being socially isolated.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

23 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

There we go then, @Monkey Tennis's example is then quite confusing. 

I just checked the actual prison here and its a nice light blue shade.  Our criminals must be rubbish at crime.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

21 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Are we not deviating slightly from the topic at hand?

It would be great to debate how our society reduces the death rate rather than focus on areas of poverty. We all know areas where we live and work where there are such issues. 

A lot of deaths must be related to people who have unfortunately succumbed to homelessness.

Ideally an independent Scotland moving forward could look to provide better employment opportunities and tackle the food bank crisis. We need ways to get people out of work back into engaging in society rather than being socially isolated.

 

Glad you got us all back on track to deliver that hard hitting original analysis 

[SuperSaints1877]

1 hour ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Glad you got us all back on track to deliver that hard hitting original analysis 

Are you and the Virgin from Greenock part of the problem?

If not what solutions would you two experts on the subject offer?

[Alert Mongoose]

Does it actually reference volume of drug use anywhere? Are we actually taking more drugs than other countries or just suffering more severe consequences. Didn't have time to read the whole thing.

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

Does it actually reference volume of drug use anywhere? Are we actually taking more drugs than other countries or just suffering more severe consequences. Didn't have time to read the whole thing.

We supposedly have the highest cocaine consumption in Europe which is believable. 

Mixing drugs with shit loads of booze as is common in Scotland probably doesn't help. 

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

HMP Shotts is quite isolated I think - I just looked it up and it's scores a 1 for crime.  I can't imagine that there are a huge volume of crimes in rural Lanarkshire so it must be that.

Maybe not reported crimes.....

[vikingTON]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/03/cocaine-and-opiates-drive-record-high-drug-deaths-in-england-and-wales