Dumbarton v Arbroath.

[squeezeboxson]

9 minutes ago, lorenzo71 said:

If you look at SA face during the interview he has a grin wider than a cheshire cat...he knows we got out of jail as the last second goal was totally avoidable from an Arbroath point of view.Yes we should have cool heads as we are only 3 games in but remember this is a manager who has been 3 years with us and a few of us on here  are starting to see a pattern evolving that does not hold much promise.Lots of huffing and puffing and disjointed play.The players put in a shift but i personally cant see a system of play.The alloa game on the last day at the rock showed that up totally.We had arguably a better squad but our tactics were ...well we didnt have any other than try to shitefest our way to a win.I can kinda see that creeping inhere in a league where we should be bossing games given what i believe is a better squad than most in this league.Vs EF and Forfar we didnt boss anything and we certainly didnt yesterday.I hope you can see what im driving at.I dont moan or take pleasure in it just for the sake of it.

You're not really backing up that claim at the end very well...

[lorenzo71]

I would also like to add that Arbroath arguably showed us too much respect yesterday and tried to hold out for a slender win.As someone mentioned if they had had a john baird we would have been toast.

We are capable of playing much better as we showed in spells over the last few seasons but its always too little IMO.

[lorenzo71]

2 minutes ago, squeezeboxson said:

You're not really backing up that claim at the end very well...

Mate i complain because i care ..if you want to bury your head in the sand then thats your prerogative.

[1320Lichtie]

I would also like to add that Arbroath arguably showed us too much respect yesterday and tried to hold out for a slender win.As someone mentioned if they had had a john baird we would have been toast.
We are capable of playing much better as we showed in spells over the last few seasons but its always too little IMO.

Wallace and McKenna have been excellent up to now, stand outs, but McKenna was anonymous yesterday and Wallace was stinking. Nothing clicking at all

[lorenzo71]

3 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Wallace and McKenna have been excellent up to now, stand outs, but McKenna was anonymous yesterday and Wallace was stinking. Nothing clicking at all

 

It seemed you were set up to counter attack yesterday, maybe im wrong.If that was the case maybe thats why they didnt click.The last 2 games you played really well it seems from what ive read.

[cameron2000]

If you look at SA face during the interview he has a grin wider than a cheshire cat...he knows we got out of jail as the last second goal was totally avoidable from an Arbroath point of view.Yes we should have cool heads as we are only 3 games in but remember this is a manager who has been 3 years with us and a few of us on here  are starting to see a pattern evolving that does not hold much promise.Lots of huffing and puffing and disjointed play.The players put in a shift but i personally cant see a system of play.The alloa game on the last day at the rock showed that up totally.We had arguably a better squad but our tactics were ...well we didnt have any other than try to shitefest our way to a win.I can kinda see that creeping inhere in a league where we should be bossing games given what i believe is a better squad than most in this league.Vs EF and Forfar we didnt boss anything and we certainly didnt yesterday.I hope you can see what im driving at.I dont moan or take pleasure in it just for the sake of it.

And Arbroath’s wasn’t avoidable? Did you see the state of the pass that lead to it?

[1320Lichtie]

It seemed you were set up to counter attack yesterday, maybe im wrong.If that was the case maybe thats why they didnt click.The last 2 games you played really well it seems from what ive read.

I don’t think so, maybe looked that way a bit because nothing was sticking up top and Linn and Kader were having good games. Chilled out a bit now but was seething at the game and coming home from it last night. Most frustrating game I’ve watched in a long time.

[lorenzo71]

Arguably any goal may be avoidable, the point is that it was the last kick of the game.They had loads of chances to hoof it up the park and didnt.As for Arbroaths goal  i think Adam was unsighted as it was a great drive.Linn shouldnt have been able to get the shot away.

[lorenzo71]

2 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

I don’t think so, maybe looked that way a bit because nothing was sticking up top and Linn and Kader were having good games. Chilled out a bit now but was seething at the game and coming home from it last night. Most frustrating game I’ve watched in a long time.

 

I can imagine, its what we seem to be specialists at losing late goals.I think the draw was a fair result but given the way the game went i would have been looking for all 3 pts if i were a Lichtie.What was DC reaction?

[1320Lichtie]

I can imagine, its what we seem to be specialists at losing late goals.I think the draw was a fair result but given the way the game went i would have been looking for all 3 pts if i were a Lichtie.What was DC reaction?

Not seen it. But DC is very colourful and imaginative in his post match stuff sometimes, heard someone say he said that we only had 1 save to make which obviously isn’t true, I imagine he means DJ was only really tested once though. Heard he’d complained about us being unable to see the game out, keeping it in corner etc. Seems fair, need to go find it

[squeezeboxson]

48 minutes ago, lorenzo71 said:

Mate i complain because i care ..if you want to bury your head in the sand then thats your prerogative.

I'd say I was pretty realistic in my thinking and I think some fans need to reassess their expectations at times.

[lorenzo71]

1 minute ago, squeezeboxson said:

I'd say I was pretty realistic in my thinking and I think some fans need to reassess their expectations at times.

Sorry but that crap style of play is horrendous.IMO yesterday wasnt great to watch as with the Forfar game.Just look at our gates.Do you think local supporters, who are already difficult to attract to games, will be turned on by the brand of football being served up.Our dwindling home support is a serious worry for the club. Realism or no realism.

[Howlin' Wilf]

3 hours ago, lorenzo71 said:

If you look at SA face during the interview he has a grin wider than a cheshire cat...he knows we got out of jail as the last second goal was totally avoidable from an Arbroath point of view.Yes we should have cool heads as we are only 3 games in but remember this is a manager who has been 3 years with us and a few of us on here  are starting to see a pattern evolving that does not hold much promise.Lots of huffing and puffing and disjointed play.The players put in a shift but i personally cant see a system of play.The alloa game on the last day at the rock showed that up totally.We had arguably a better squad but our tactics were ...well we didnt have any other than try to shitefest our way to a win.I can kinda see that creeping inhere in a league where we should be bossing games given what i believe is a better squad than most in this league.Vs EF and Forfar we didnt boss anything and we certainly didnt yesterday.I hope you can see what im driving at.I dont moan or take pleasure in it just for the sake of it.

It's the language "get out of jail" is pretty pejorative and suggests we stole the point. It's natural for a manager to be pleased at a last-gasp equaliser - particularly when he thinks (and I agree) that the team's efforts deserved a goal. I thought we were timid and pretty rotten in the second leg of the play offs but I don't remember Alloa being accused of getting out of jail with their late goal and neither they should because the game lasts 90 minutes plus stoppage time. Neither do I recall Inverness Caley Thistle's goal being regarded as fortunate in any way in the Irn Bru Cup Final. It seriously does only seem to be when our own team grab a late goal that there is a collective sitting on a spike and claims that we don't deserve a result. You don't have to look far at the Rock to find someone who will tell you that we spawned our promotion to the Championship in 2012. The same folk will tell you that only capitulation by Cowdenbeath won us the Third division in 2009 and of course the 2002 efforts of Tom Carson and George Clarke were achieved with the lowest points total of any promoted team ever. If you listen to such stuff - and it's hard not to, you'll believe that our beloved Sons are the luckiest team on the planet. In my near half century supporting them, I've never seen the evidence of this.

I remember coming out of Boghead at 12 years old on 30th October 1971 when Arbroath had won 2-1.  The comments were pretty much "I've telt ye, Dumbarton will never get promoted 'cos they cannae afford it" "So much for promotion - nae chance now!" "Arbroath are a much better team - they'll go up with St Mirren" etc. etc. The ground may have changed, the structure of Scottish football has undergone a few changes, 46 years have intervened but the hive mind of the Dumbarton support remains scarily similar.

But Wilf, how did 1971-72 end up?

[Howlin' Wilf]

Interesting that eight out of the ten teams in League one today were also in that 1971-72 second division.

[DumbartonTheSons]

Having now watched the highlights and read some of the stuff since my initial reaction, what I'd say is, it's never a penalty with Dyer and Kader. Mainly due to it not being inside the box. Whether Dyer should've still been on if the referee made his first right decision all afternoon?... I think we got lucky there.

On the coming together between Kader and Adam, I don't think Adam should've been sent off having seen it back. It's handbags at best and they both push each other. Bookings for both would've been right.

And for whoever it was claiming Carswell should've been sent off, what a laugh that is. It's a clash and Thomson is knocked over. No less and certainly no more. Carswell is booked because of the reaction and Thomson is booked because the referee doesn't appear to know what he's doing, and not for the first time.

A draw absolutely fair. Both teams really poor, worryingly we could do without any more injuries. What chance of a loan or two before the end of the month?

[Scottylintonstowel]

2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Not seen it. But DC is very colourful and imaginative in his post match stuff sometimes, heard someone say he said that we only had 1 save to make which obviously isn’t true, I imagine he means DJ was only really tested once though. Heard he’d complained about us being unable to see the game out, keeping it in corner etc. Seems fair, need to go find it

 

Are you going to stop interjecting. This topic exists entirely just for Dumbarton fans to have a good moan. What other teams do is completely irrelevant. Soon someone will start a Brechin v Dumbarton thread and we can all start moaning again. We hate it when things go well and demand failure so we can all have a good whine. Anyway good luck to Arbroath and please leave us in peace while we bang our heads against a wall.

[cameron2000]

Seems a general consensus that both teams are poor. How about 2 decent teams cancelling each other out?

[lorenzo71]

1 hour ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

It's the language "get out of jail" is pretty pejorative and suggests we stole the point. It's natural for a manager to be pleased at a last-gasp equaliser - particularly when he thinks (and I agree) that the team's efforts deserved a goal. I thought we were timid and pretty rotten in the second leg of the play offs but I don't remember Alloa being accused of getting out of jail with their late goal and neither they should because the game lasts 90 minutes plus stoppage time. Neither do I recall Inverness Caley Thistle's goal being regarded as fortunate in any way in the Irn Bru Cup Final. It seriously does only seem to be when our own team grab a late goal that there is a collective sitting on a spike and claims that we don't deserve a result. You don't have to look far at the Rock to find someone who will tell you that we spawned our promotion to the Championship in 2012. The same folk will tell you that only capitulation by Cowdenbeath won us the Third division in 2009 and of course the 2002 efforts of Tom Carson and George Clarke were achieved with the lowest points total of any promoted team ever. If you listen to such stuff - and it's hard not to, you'll believe that our beloved Sons are the luckiest team on the planet. In my near half century supporting them, I've never seen the evidence of this.

I remember coming out of Boghead at 12 years old on 30th October 1972 when Arbroath had won 2-1.  The comments were pretty much "I've telt ye, Dumbarton will never get promoted 'cos they cannae afford it" "So much for promotion - nae chance now!" "Arbroath are a much better team - they'll go up with St Mirren" etc. etc. The ground may have changed, the structure of Scottish football has undergone a few changes, 46 years have intervened but the hive mind of the Dumbarton support remains scarily similar.

But Wilf, how did 1971-72 end up?

I think i said we deserved a point but scoring with the last kick of the game and in those circumstances amounts to getting out of jail.Caley thistle also won with the last kick but i think everybody agreed they deserved to win.I had no complaints on the day.

In 2011/12 how many times did we win with a last gasp effort?Quite a few  IIRC .In those cases i didnt feel we were lucky because we has a style of play that was attacking and looking for goals.This team isnt anything like that.In that season we would go a goal down and fight back to win.I dont get that feeling from SA team.We go a goal down and i have little hope  of recovering.Again why?Manager vibe etc.This is my opinion and i would be delighted if SA shuved those words back down my throat and he turns it around.

Do you honestly think we are good to watch?We havent been for a while IMO.We have seen it in brief flashes which proves its possible.Its certainly not the norm.Again IMHO.

As for Sons fans being negative in the way you say i wouldnt argue that many are indeed like that.But if you get to know supporters from other clubs you will find its a common thread.How many times over the years have i heard fans moaning when their club buy players who are 'a waste of money' and then 'moan like f**k cause the board won't get the checkbook out'.Its part and parcel of the game with ALL clubs.

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, Howlin' Wilf said:

But Wilf, how did 1971-72 end up?

The last day of the season was supposed to be the series of matches on 29th April. At 5pm that night, Arbroath were 2 points clear at the top, as we had drawn at Gayfield against QoS, and you had lost at Boghead to St Mirren. Accordingly, Arbroath were certain of promotion, as were Dumbarton, barring a catastrophe.

I can't remember why, but either Berwick or yourselves had been allowed to postpone a game between you at Shielfield and play it after the season ended. Accordingly, with Dumbarton's superior goal difference, all you had to do to win the championship was win. If you drew, you still got promotion. If you lost, I think Stirling pipped you on goal difference.

No sour grapes here, as you won more points than we did over the course of the seasn, but having a game in hand after the season had supposedly finished and knowing exactly what you had to do did give you a slight advantage.

All Arbroath's fault though. A win over QoS and we would have been champs.

[Howlin' Wilf]

10 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

The last day of the season was supposed to be the series of matches on 29th April. At 5pm that night, Arbroath were 2 points clear at the top, as we had drawn at Gayfield against QoS, and you had lost at Boghead to St Mirren. Accordingly, Arbroath were certain of promotion, as were Dumbarton, barring a catastrophe.

I can't remember why, but either Berwick or yourselves had been allowed to postpone a game between you at Shielfield and play it after the season ended. Accordingly, with Dumbarton's superior goal difference, all you had to do to win the championship was win. If you drew, you still got promotion. If you lost, I think Stirling pipped you on goal difference.

No sour grapes here, as you won more points than we did over the course of the seasn, but having a game in hand after the season had supposedly finished and knowing exactly what you had to do did give you a slight advantage.

All Arbroath's fault though. A win over QoS and we would have been champs.

The game against Berwick which clinched it was at Boghead not Sheilfield. I'm pretty sure it was a normal postponement for weather condidtions from an earlier date. Knowing Boghead it was probably a waterlogged pitch. Anyway, 10,000 there on the night and the win was pretty convincing.