All of the #indy #yes marches and events and rallies and all that

[Jambo99]

On 24/09/2018 at 11:12, jimmer said:

The rallies are a positive step towards independence. Friendly. good humoured and peaceful they exude confidence and belief that we are more than capable of running our own affairs as an independent nation.   Drewdon above states that "most voters take no notice of these rallies". Really ?  For his "most voters" I would substitute our current MSM where the BBC, ITV,  Sky,  Sun, Mirror, Record, Herald, Scotsman, etc,etc ignore or rarely mention  any rally favouring independence and go out of their way to deny  any kind of a platform for fair and balanced coverage of these events. This in turn gives the people here  the impression that these are tiny minority groups who never feature on the daily fake-stream news, controlled and manipulated by their unionist masters in London.    All of this to endorse the perception that Scotland is too wee, too poor, too stupid etc. to control its own destiny.

Every rally is on the BBC these days. 

[ICTChris]

A march was asked to move on from Stirling Castle this week, its created a bit of a stushie among those supporting it. It’s the 500 miles march, not sure what it’s about.

[git-intae-thum]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

A march was asked to move on from Stirling Castle this week, its created a bit of a stushie among those supporting it. It’s the 500 miles march, not sure what it’s about.

They are advocating the use of blockchain voting.

The premise is that it will encourage participation (especially among the youth) and end speculation about dodgy counts, postal voting patterns etc.

Must admit I have no really looked into it, but it does sound a fascinating idea that could be really revolutionary.

[Jambo: First Blood]

34 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

They are advocating the use of blockchain voting.

The premise is that it will encourage participation (especially among the youth) and end speculation about dodgy counts, postal voting patterns etc.

Must admit I have no really looked into it, but it does sound a fascinating idea that could be really revolutionary.

That just raises barriers to voting significantly rather than lower them. It means you need more equipment to vote that some people won't have and also requires a level of technical understanding that a lot less people will have.

Young people vote less because they are less bothered not because it's hard to since it really isn't.

There is no issue with fradulent vote counts in Western Europe.

[welshbairn]

17 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

They are advocating the use of blockchain voting.

The premise is that it will encourage participation (especially among the youth) and end speculation about dodgy counts, postal voting patterns etc.

Must admit I have no really looked into it, but it does sound a fascinating idea that could be really revolutionary.

Any modern system of voting which requires banks of servers to be set up in the Arctic to avoid overheating or incurring massive electricity bills I'm against. 

[ICTChris]

8 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

They are advocating the use of blockchain voting.

The premise is that it will encourage participation (especially among the youth) and end speculation about dodgy counts, postal voting patterns etc.

Must admit I have no really looked into it, but it does sound a fascinating idea that could be really revolutionary.

I don't think there are dodgy counts or postal voting in Scotland.  The rates of electoral fraud in the UK are very low, there was one conviction for electoral offences around the 2017 election.  Police Scotland investigated six allegations of electoral offences, only one of which was related to postal voting and  none of which have resulted in a conviction (yet).

Advocating changing voting systems to encourage participation in politics is also a red herring and is patronising to young people.  "hey guys, I know you all thought that voting was square but now we've  got *checks notes* blockchain voting!"  

Whatever their cause, there seems to have been an issue at Stirling Castle, staff phoned the police when marchers tried to hold a photo shoot in the car park - http://www.thenational.scot/news/16951217.hes-refuses-500-mile-walkers-entry-to-stirling-castle-car-park/

Historic Scotland have tweeted about the issue - https://twitter.com/HistEnvScot/status/1046422539398983680

[git-intae-thum]

4 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I don't think there are dodgy counts or postal voting in Scotland.  The rates of electoral fraud in the UK are very low, there was one conviction for electoral offences around the 2017 election.  Police Scotland investigated six allegations of electoral offences, only one of which was related to postal voting and  none of which have resulted in a conviction (yet).

Advocating changing voting systems to encourage participation in politics is also a red herring and is patronising to young people.  "hey guys, I know you all thought that voting was square but now we've  got *checks notes* blockchain voting!"  

Whatever their cause, there seems to have been an issue at Stirling Castle, staff phoned the police when marchers tried to hold a photo shoot in the car park - http://www.thenational.scot/news/16951217.hes-refuses-500-mile-walkers-entry-to-stirling-castle-car-park/

Historic Scotland have tweeted about the issue - https://twitter.com/HistEnvScot/status/1046422539398983680

I can see where you are coming from re the digital voting concept. As I said I do not know a lot about it. Be interesting to see if it takes off.

I think the stushie surrounds HES attempting to kick this small group off Stirling castle forecourt the other day.

On its own its pretty trivial.....however it has come shortly after the HES decision to ban facilities in Holyrood park at the end of the march this coming Saturday.

It does seem a bit of a strange decision on their part. They seem to be citing political neutrality.

Maybe someone should have advised them of the recent legal ruling that belief in independence was not '"political."

Oh....it also does not help their case when they seem quite happy to allow this lot to use the facilities

[ICTChris]

6 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

I can see where you are coming from re the digital voting concept. As I said I do not know a lot about it. Be interesting to see if it takes off.

I think the stushie surrounds HES attempting to kick this small group off Stirling castle forecourt the other day.

On its own its pretty trivial.....however it has come shortly after the HES decision to ban facilities in Holyrood park at the end of the march this coming Saturday.

It does seem a bit of a strange decision on their part. They seem to be citing political neutrality.

Maybe someone should have advised them of the recent legal ruling that belief in independence was not '"political."

Oh....it also does not help their case when they seem quite happy to allow this lot to use the facilities

Historic Environment Scotland have said that they do not allow political events to be held on any of the property they manage, I don't think it's a strange decision.  According to the march organisers they were told months ago that their plans had a 5% chance of being accepted, why are they pushing ahead with something like this?  I

The only events I can recall being held in Holyrood Park are charity events.  There was a parade in Edinburgh for the 100th anniversary of women's suffrage this year but I don't think that's the same as a march to commemorate independence.  

Apparently there's a proposal to have a a rally in Meadowfield Park, which is owned by Edinburgh City Council and is the other side of the Park.

[git-intae-thum]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

Historic Environment Scotland have said that they do not allow political events to be held on any of the property they manage, I don't think it's a strange decision.  According to the march organisers they were told months ago that their plans had a 5% chance of being accepted, why are they pushing ahead with something like this?  I

The only events I can recall being held in Holyrood Park are charity events.  There was a parade in Edinburgh for the 100th anniversary of women's suffrage this year but I don't think that's the same as a march to commemorate independence.  

Apparently there's a proposal to have a a rally in Meadowfield Park, which is owned by Edinburgh City Council and is the other side of the Park.

Hmmm....OK....Obviously then both your and HES's definition of "political" errs from that of a recent court.

I take the point about the apparent lack of organisation and forward planning by AUOB though. Bit of a dugs dinner.

Nice big non political flag that.

[ICTChris]

2 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

Hmmm....OK....Obviously then both your and HES's definition of "political" errs from that of a recent court.

I take the point about the apparent lack of organisation and forward planning by AUOB though. Bit of a dugs dinner.

Nice big non political flag that.

I believe that Stirling Castle is a regimental HQ thus explaining the Union flag.

The court case you are referring to (which is ongoing) is in relation to employment law and whether a belief in Scottish independence should be considered a political or philosophical belief.  That's different to judging whether a march of thousands of people campaigning for Scottish independence is a political event or not - it obviously is a political event.

The organisation of these events does seem poor, I do think there's a pattern though - making demands in the name of the "people", getting into pointless confrontations with authorities and using that to galvanise support.  Both the 500 Miles and AUOB marches have started publicising the names of HES employees on Twitter, sometimes with their direct contact numbers as well, must be a joy to be manning the phones.

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I believe that Stirling Castle is a regimental HQ thus explaining the Union flag.
The court case you are referring to (which is ongoing) is in relation to employment law and whether a belief in Scottish independence should be considered a political or philosophical belief.  That's different to judging whether a march of thousands of people campaigning for Scottish independence is a political event or not - it obviously is a political event.
The organisation of these events does seem poor, I do think there's a pattern though - making demands in the name of the "people", getting into pointless confrontations with authorities and using that to galvanise support.  Both the 500 Miles and AUOB marches have started publicising the names of HES employees on Twitter, sometimes with their direct contact numbers as well, must be a joy to be manning the phones.
 

These folks are absolute nutters to a man, radical indy, 500 miles, wings all absolute bonker nuts who should just gie us all peace.

[BawWatchin]

2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

These folks are absolute nutters to a man, radical indy, 500 miles, wings all absolute bonker nuts who should just gie us all peace.

Those nutters will soon be a hell of a lot higher in numbers after it's too late to actually do anything.

[git-intae-thum]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I believe that Stirling Castle is a regimental HQ thus explaining the Union flag.

The court case you are referring to (which is ongoing) is in relation to employment law and whether a belief in Scottish independence should be considered a political or philosophical belief.  That's different to judging whether a march of thousands of people campaigning for Scottish independence is a political event or not - it obviously is a political event.

The organisation of these events does seem poor, I do think there's a pattern though - making demands in the name of the "people", getting into pointless confrontations with authorities and using that to galvanise support.  Both the 500 Miles and AUOB marches have started publicising the names of HES employees on Twitter, sometimes with their direct contact numbers as well, must be a joy to be manning the phones.

 

That was a picture of Edinburgh castle.....no matter.....funnily enough they had an issue with the union flag pole earlier in the year. It kept falling over...maybe providence

Obviously with regards the legal argument over what constitues "political" and what does not,  well it is just opinion. 

If belief in independence is to be held as as "political," I am genuinely interested in how the overt nationalism of the British establishment is somehow not.

Just a thought.

 

[ICTChris]

3 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

That was a picture of Edinburgh castle.....no matter.....funnily enough they had an issue with the union flag pole earlier in the year. It kept falling over...maybe providence

Obviously with regards the legal argument over what constitues "political" and what does not,  well it is just opinion. 

If belief in independence is to be held as as "political," I am genuinely interested in how the overt nationalism of the British establishment is somehow not.

Just a thought.

Edinburgh Castle is an active barracks as well, hence the Union flag.

I'd say that nationalism and belief in independence are separate.  There are plenty of people who voted No who happily wave Scottish flags etc and those who voted Yes who'd never go to a rally or wave a flag.

 

[git-intae-thum]

Eh.....are you saying that nationalism is not "political."

But a belief in independence is?

[BawWatchin]

5 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

Eh.....are you saying that nationalism is not "political."

But a belief in independence is?

[dirty dingus]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

These folks are absolute nutters to a man, radical indy, 500 miles, wings all absolute bonker nuts who should just gie us all peace.

I still prefer them to the orange order, royalists and poppy nazis.

[John Lambies Doos]

Edinburgh Castle is an active barracks as well, hence the Union flag.
I'd say that nationalism and belief in independence are separate.  There are plenty of people who voted No who happily wave Scottish flags etc and those who voted Yes who'd never go to a rally or wave a flag.
 

It's the c***s that voted No and sing Flower of Scotland which grates me.

[BawWatchin]

1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said:

It's the c***s that voted No and sing Flower of Scotland which grates me.

They don't though. They're the one's that sit there and mumble "rule britannia" under their breath, but will openly complain online about how racist they think Flower of Scotland is to anybody who will pay any attention to them.

[sophia]

20 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Edinburgh Castle is an active barracks as well, hence the Union flag.

I'd say that nationalism and belief in independence are separate.  There are plenty of people who voted No who happily wave Scottish flags etc and those who voted Yes who'd never go to a rally or wave a flag.

 

It seems to me that you are so satisfied with the status quo that you've failed to grasp that it's important to challenge these shibboleths