The Vaughan Derby: Sons v Raith

[DumbartonTheSons]

This is all subjective though. To you right now is the right time to sack him, for some May was the time to sack him, others think he should've gone 3 weeks ago. The board have all the facts and for one reason or another are extending the time Aitken is allowed in the job. If we accept that the current board are doing all the right things in regards to communication, engagement and PR (and with holding our owners to account) then I think they should be extended some trust to do the right thing for the club in respect of the manager too.

I appreciate it's all subjective and everyone has varying opinions on when and indeed if, the right time to sack him his.

But I'm with Bring Back Paddy Flannery below, Saturday was the straw that broke the camels back.

I understand the board thinking at some stage 'let's give him another couple of games' but having played well for pretty much cumulatively around 240ish competitive minutes this season, and being humbled and dismantled on Saturday at a team in transition, what benefit is there to giving him the game at Stranraer?

So we win that, we then have a break. You're not telling me the board believe that Aitken will somehow be able to wave his magic wand in that break and he'll suddenly be able to set a team up to try and win a game, to motivate his side, to direct them and to play to his player's strengths in that time and all will be rosy in the DFC garden again?

[BallochSonsFan]

As fans we can concentrate on the football. The board don't have that luxury.

We all want to see a team that is committed to giving 100%. We want to see the team win. If we can't win then the least we expect is to compete. The things that matter to fans are results and performances. We don't follow a balance sheet.

The board unfortunately need to balance the club's football issues with the club's business issues.

Aitken has a contract. In order to terminate that contract the club need to pay him money. The club then need to start a recruitment process where there may not be an abundance of candidates who would take us forward. The preferred candidates may currently be employed by other clubs and that raises the prospect of compensation. Any replacement who would come in is still working with the current group of players. There are no guarantees that they'd do a better job - as Falkirk fans are finding out right now. Does that mean that the club would never sack Stevie Aitken? Of course not. If the club had to make that decision then it would do so. He might have the backing of the club right now but you can absolutely guarantee that it isnt unqualified backing or blind loyalty.

Aitken has a target for where the club expects to be at the end of the season. Right now he is still capable of delivering that target. Performances so far this season have been poor but the club's target for Aitken is still achievable. The board needs to balance competing demands. Fans might want to sack the manager but whilst performances have been poor, the club board needs to look at all areas of the business. The days of throwing money around - usually borrowed in the form of director soft loans - are over. Stevie knows the expectations placed on him by the board and knows that things need to improve. He also knows that if push comes to shove and a decision on his position needs to be made in the future then the board will do what's best for the club. At this point in time it's running the club on a prudent financial basis. If it comes to it and Aitken is unlikely to deliver on the targets set for him then the focus changes to replacing him as manager.

Right now? Aitken's target for the season remains viable and until it becomes clear that he isnt likely to deliver, his immediate future isnt top of the list of priorities at the Rock. We don't need to like it as fans. I  expect us to be doing better. That doesn't mean that the board can ignore competing priorities and make a huge call in sacking him at this time. If things don't improve then the further we go through this season then the stronger the pressure on Aitken's position will become. The board will do what needs to be done for the overall benefit of the club when it has to do it. If that means continuing with Aitken as manager right now then unfortunately that's what has to be done and things will need to be re-evaluated as and when circumstances either improve or deteriorate. 

[Homer Sandoval]

23 minutes ago, DumbartonTheSons said:

 

I appreciate it's all subjective and everyone has varying opinions on when and indeed if, the right time to sack him his.

But I'm with Bring Back Paddy Flannery below, Saturday was the straw that broke the camels back.

I understand the board thinking at some stage 'let's give him another couple of games' but having played well for pretty much cumulatively around 240ish competitive minutes this season, and being humbled and dismantled on Saturday at a team in transition, what benefit is there to giving him the game at Stranraer?

So we win that, we then have a break. You're not telling me the board believe that Aitken will somehow be able to wave his magic wand in that break and he'll suddenly be able to set a team up to try and win a game, to motivate his side, to direct them and to play to his player's strengths in that time and all will be rosy in the DFC garden again?

 

If Stranraer are beaten and a week’s rest for a clearly decimated squad helps breathes new life into the season, why wouldn’t this be a good thing?

There seems to be an expectation that Dumbarton should be playing some sort of brand of football? 

[sonsanorak]

Reading in the Lennox that dyer, dowie and Hutton are 60% fit and that Adam may be out long term.

That would explain dowser seeming to be off the pace by his own standards.

Speaks for the players that they’re prepared to play when not fit.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Reading in the Lennox that dyer, dowie and Hutton are 60% fit and that Adam may be out long term.

 

That would explain dowser seeming to be off the pace by his own standards.

 

Speaks for the players that they’re prepared to play when not fit.

Has he been unfit since the League Cup campaign kicked off?

 

If anything Saturday was just a continuation of the shite he's been producing since the season kicked off in early July rather than an off day.

 

[DumbartonTheSons]

If Stranraer are beaten and a week’s rest for a clearly decimated squad helps breathes new life into the season, why wouldn’t this be a good thing?
There seems to be an expectation that Dumbarton should be playing some sort of brand of football? 

We may we'll win and a week of rest could well breathe new life into the season. And of course that would be a good thing.

But I just don't see it happening. Us beating Stranraer may well happen, but it's going to take a lot more than a win and a week's rest to sort out the shambles we're in.

And for me, others may disagree as is their prerogative, there's no way back. The fundamental issues are that our management team don't appear to know how to get the best out of our players (the ones that they signed), how to set the team up, how to win games and how to line a team up that plays to its strengths. And for me a win on Saturday merely masks that, doesn't go any way to solving the bigger issues.

I don't know about 'brand of football' but I do expect us to compete, to show dig, drive and determination and to be managed in a competent way. None of which I see when I watch us at the moment.

[Homer Sandoval]

41 minutes ago, DumbartonTheSons said:

 

We may we'll win and a week of rest could well breathe new life into the season. And of course that would be a good thing.

But I just don't see it happening. Us beating Stranraer may well happen, but it's going to take a lot more than a win and a week's rest to sort out the shambles we're in.

And for me, others may disagree as is their prerogative, there's no way back. The fundamental issues are that our management team don't appear to know how to get the best out of our players (the ones that they signed), how to set the team up, how to win games and how to line a team up that plays to its strengths. And for me a win on Saturday merely masks that, doesn't go any way to solving the bigger issues.

I don't know about 'brand of football' but I do expect us to compete, to show dig, drive and determination and to be managed in a competent way. None of which I see when I watch us at the moment.

 

With all the respect in the world, I would suggest that Stevie Aitken knows the dynamic of a dressing room and how to set a team up better than you.

Managed in a competent way? Keeping the club you support in the SPFL Championship for two years plus achieving an appearance in a cup final is as good as it gets for Dumbarton.

That’s a degree of competence right there.

Sticky period right now. It happens.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

With all the respect in the world, I would suggest that Stevie Aitken knows the dynamic of a dressing room and how to set a team up better than you.
Managed in a competent way? Keeping the club you support in the SPFL Championship for two years plus achieving an appearance in a cup final is as good as it gets for Dumbarton.
That’s a degree of competence right there.
Sticky period right now. It happens.

Ok, Stevie.

Just because you are happy with mediocrity doesn't mean the rest of us are.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

 

[Nowhereman]

We may we'll win and a week of rest could well breathe new life into the season. And of course that would be a good thing.

But I just don't see it happening. Us beating Stranraer may well happen, but it's going to take a lot more than a win and a week's rest to sort out the shambles we're in.

And for me, others may disagree as is their prerogative, there's no way back. The fundamental issues are that our management team don't appear to know how to get the best out of our players (the ones that they signed), how to set the team up, how to win games and how to line a team up that plays to its strengths. And for me a win on Saturday merely masks that, doesn't go any way to solving the bigger issues.

I don't know about 'brand of football' but I do expect us to compete, to show dig, drive and determination and to be managed in a competent way. None of which I see when I watch us at the moment.

Thing about that is competing and showing dig ,drive and determination are things that the players should be able to do no matter who the manager is. Right now too many of them don't or perhaps won't produce those qualities

[Beachbum]

24 minutes ago, Zen Archer said:

 

That's absolutely amazing - a post on this thread that's actually about the game. 

[grumswall]

Thing about that is competing and showing dig ,drive and determination are things that the players should be able to do no matter who the manager is. Right now too many of them don't or perhaps won't produce those qualities

Who runs themselves into the ground for someone they don't respect though? They are paid regardless for the duration of their contract.

[Jan Vojáček]

7 hours ago, grumswall said:

8 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Thing about that is competing and showing dig ,drive and determination are things that the players should be able to do no matter who the manager is. Right now too many of them don't or perhaps won't produce those qualities

Who runs themselves into the ground for someone they don't respect though? They are paid regardless for the duration of their contract.

Absolutely this. I don't think one person at the Rock on Saturday could seriously believe (injuries or not) that was a Dumbarton team playing for their manager.

[George Parr]

9 hours ago, Zen Archer said:

 

That defending though. Good lord 

[Broken Algorithms]

Fair play to the Dumbarton fans. Can't recall the last time we played any team and they've had a full blown investigation into their management team and the way their club is run. Bit of a nice change considering it happened with us under Locke and Smith after the playoffs.

[Jan Vojáček]

Just now, Broken Algorithms said:

Fair play to the Dumbarton fans. Can't recall the last time we played any team and they've had a full blown investigation into their management team and the way their club is run. Bit of a nice change considering it happened with us under Locke and Smith after the playoffs.

It used to happen to us about once every three months upstairs, so I guess it's only fair we give something back.

[The Moonster]

9 hours ago, Beachbum said:

That's absolutely amazing - a post on this thread that's actually about the game. 

Nobody's stopping you from talking about the game, please feel free to wire in, we'll continue with our stewards enquiry into what the f**k's going on.

[George Parr]

12 hours ago, Homer Sandoval said:

 

Sticky period right now. It happens.

Indeed, but our 'sticky period' just passed the 6 month mark. Becomes a little galling after a while.

[Thommo90]

14 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

As fans we can concentrate on the football. The board don't have that luxury.

We all want to see a team that is committed to giving 100%. We want to see the team win. If we can't win then the least we expect is to compete. The things that matter to fans are results and performances. We don't follow a balance sheet.

The board unfortunately need to balance the club's football issues with the club's business issues.

Aitken has a contract. In order to terminate that contract the club need to pay him money. The club then need to start a recruitment process where there may not be an abundance of candidates who would take us forward. The preferred candidates may currently be employed by other clubs and that raises the prospect of compensation. Any replacement who would come in is still working with the current group of players. There are no guarantees that they'd do a better job - as Falkirk fans are finding out right now. Does that mean that the club would never sack Stevie Aitken? Of course not. If the club had to make that decision then it would do so. He might have the backing of the club right now but you can absolutely guarantee that it isnt unqualified backing or blind loyalty.

Aitken has a target for where the club expects to be at the end of the season. Right now he is still capable of delivering that target. Performances so far this season have been poor but the club's target for Aitken is still achievable. The board needs to balance competing demands. Fans might want to sack the manager but whilst performances have been poor, the club board needs to look at all areas of the business. The days of throwing money around - usually borrowed in the form of director soft loans - are over. Stevie knows the expectations placed on him by the board and knows that things need to improve. He also knows that if push comes to shove and a decision on his position needs to be made in the future then the board will do what's best for the club. At this point in time it's running the club on a prudent financial basis. If it comes to it and Aitken is unlikely to deliver on the targets set for him then the focus changes to replacing him as manager.

Right now? Aitken's target for the season remains viable and until it becomes clear that he isnt likely to deliver, his immediate future isnt top of the list of priorities at the Rock. We don't need to like it as fans. I  expect us to be doing better. That doesn't mean that the board can ignore competing priorities and make a huge call in sacking him at this time. If things don't improve then the further we go through this season then the stronger the pressure on Aitken's position will become. The board will do what needs to be done for the overall benefit of the club when it has to do it. If that means continuing with Aitken as manager right now then unfortunately that's what has to be done and things will need to be re-evaluated as and when circumstances either improve or deteriorate. 

Aitken should have got the chop after taking us down last season.  His poor recruitment and poor tactics/decisions led to us going down.  If there were no Brechin City in the league last year then Aitken would not be here the now.  Since 

 

We took a punt on Murray out of nowhere, I am sure we will be able to find someone similar.  The players have lost confidence in Aitken and he is refusing to use players that ARE fit and uses players out of position instead so he can play his favourites who we all know are NOT FIT.  It's honestly mental.

 

Been a downward spiral since the end of the 16/17 season and that is why he needs to go, not just for the shite start to this season.

[Thommo90]

18 minutes ago, Consolidate said:

Indeed, but our 'sticky period' just passed the 6 month mark. Becomes a little galling after a while.

It has been a sticky period since the end of 16/17