A postive case for the union

[Malky3]

4 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

And that would stop Scotland from borrowing how?

You don’t know the difference between fiscal and monetary policy. Look it up.

I'm an engineer. I'm not an expert on finance. I'm simply providing you links to expert comment on how ridiculous the SNP policies are and the Nationalist argument is right now. They are providing the evidence and issuing the "telt". Not me. I'm simply looking after my family and my interests by voting No! If nationalists want my vote they'll need to start proving that an Independent Scotland would be better - and I've seen zero evidence of that to date

Edited September 20, 2019 by Malky3

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

I'm an engineer. I'm not an expert on finance. I'm simply providing you links to expert comment on how ridiculous the SNP policies are and the Nationalist argument is right now. They are providing the evidence and issuing the "telt". Not me. I'm simply looking after my family and my interests by voting No! If nationalists want my vote they'll need to start proving that an Independent Scotland would be better - and I've seen zero evidence of that to date

You’re posting stuff as fact without the knowledge to critique it. I’m glad we have that out of the way.

Next copy and paste an article explaining how Scotland would not be able to borrow a penny. That last one didn’t, no matter how much you think it did.

[lichtgilphead]

Kosovo & Montenegro have used the Euro since its launch, even though they are not members of the EU and have no input into monetary policies etc.

I assume that if Malky is correct, they will have zero borrowings.

Oops, just look at numbers 54 & 188 on this list https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html

Montenegro has a similar debt % to Ireland, whilst Kosovo is similar to Luxembourg

 

[Malky3]

2 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

You’re posting stuff as fact without the knowledge to critique it. I’m glad we have that out of the way.

Next copy and paste an article explaining how Scotland would not be able to borrow a penny. That last one didn’t, no matter how much you think it did.

You're the one claiming to be an expert. How about you tell me how Scotland will borrow - and on what rates it will borrow at - and how much per annum it would borrow. 

 

[welshbairn]

He still hasn't responded on OBFA.

Or John Curtis supposedly saying that half of SNP members support Leave. Or ad infinitum.

[Pet Jeden]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

I'm an engineer. I'm not an expert on finance. I'm simply providing you links to expert comment on how ridiculous the SNP policies are and the Nationalist argument is right now. They are providing the evidence and issuing the "telt". Not me. I'm simply looking after my family and my interests by voting No! If nationalists want my vote they'll need to start proving that an Independent Scotland would be better - and I've seen zero evidence of that to date

Trying to prove that we'd be 5% or 10% better or worse off in an independent Scotland is a mugs game. With wee tweaks to the assumptions you can "prove" whatever your heart feels. Like Brexit. it's a decision of principle. Where do you want decisions made - London or Edinburgh? (accepting that some decisions will always be made for you in Washington, Beijing and Brussels) It's hard to imagine one single country that would swap it's independence for 10% additional wealth. And yet these mercenary considerations drive all the Remainer parties' arguments against Brexit and all the Unionist parties arguments against Scottish Independence.

[hearthammer]

8 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

Trying to prove that we'd be 5% or 10% better or worse off in an independent Scotland is a mugs game. With wee tweaks to the assumptions you can "prove" whatever your heart feels. Like Brexit. it's a decision of principle. Where do you want decisions made - London or Edinburgh? (accepting that some decisions will always be made for you in Washington, Beijing and Brussels) It's hard to imagine one single country that would swap it's independence for 10% additional wealth. And yet these mercenary considerations drive all the Remainer parties' arguments against Brexit and all the Unionist parties arguments against Scottish Independence.

Should you not be house hunting in your beloved  ingerlund at the moment instead of fretting about the 3rd world conditions you believe you will endure by staying in Scotland once the revolution comes ?? 

 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

15 hours ago, Malky3 said:

You're the one claiming to be an expert. How about you tell me how Scotland will borrow - and on what rates it will borrow at - and how much per annum it would borrow. 

 

That's not how this works, I'm afraid. Your entire speil is that, on the back of a sentence in a website you've read and don't understand, Scotland can't borrow hence we would have to find £13billion down the back of the couch. This is demonstrably pish. I'm just pointing that out. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo

[welshbairn]

10 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

Trying to prove that we'd be 5% or 10% better or worse off in an independent Scotland is a mugs game. With wee tweaks to the assumptions you can "prove" whatever your heart feels. Like Brexit. it's a decision of principle. Where do you want decisions made - London or Edinburgh? (accepting that some decisions will always be made for you in Washington, Beijing and Brussels) It's hard to imagine one single country that would swap it's independence for 10% additional wealth. And yet these mercenary considerations drive all the Remainer parties' arguments against Brexit and all the Unionist parties arguments against Scottish Independence.

Finally agree with you on something. Predicting the economy 5 years ahead is a mugs game, my reasons for wanting Scotland to be independent and in the EU are almost entirely political.

[AUFC90]

Christ - you wasted years of your life didn't you. 
I'm no expert - the guy who wrote the article is - and he supports Scottish Independence. However it seems quite clear to me from his article that the reason is because the Bank Of England would control Sterlings monetary policy - not the Scottish Government! 

I'm sure Denmark is like Greece because they don't control their monetary policy.

[AUFC90]

I'm an engineer. I'm not an expert on finance. I'm simply providing you links to expert comment on how ridiculous the SNP policies are and the Nationalist argument is right now. They are providing the evidence and issuing the "telt". Not me. I'm simply looking after my family and my interests by voting No! If nationalists want my vote they'll need to start proving that an Independent Scotland would be better - and I've seen zero evidence of that to date

How many times.....no c**t wants your vote mate.

[cyderspaceman]

12 hours ago, Malky3 said:

I'm an engineer. I'm not an expert on finance. I'm simply providing you links to expert comment on how ridiculous the SNP policies are and the Nationalist argument is right now. They are providing the evidence and issuing the "telt". Not me. I'm simply looking after my family and my interests by voting No! If nationalists want my vote they'll need to start proving that an Independent Scotland would be better - and I've seen zero evidence of that to date

Clairvoyance is needed for this.      

[dirty dingus]

12 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Or John Curtis supposedly saying that half of SNP members support Leave. Or ad infinitum.

Or Ian Wood funding  SNP campaigns.

 

[Pet Jeden]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Finally agree with you on something. Predicting the economy 5 years ahead is a mugs game, my reasons for wanting Scotland to be independent and in the EU are almost entirely political.

Well, I'm half with you.

[Pet Jeden]

3 hours ago, hearthammer said:

Should you not be house hunting in your beloved  ingerlund at the moment instead of fretting about the 3rd world conditions you believe you will endure by staying in Scotland once the revolution comes ?? 

 

1. I don't think you understood my point. 

2. You hate the English? (But presumably love the Belgians)

3. Revolution? What's wrong simply putting an X on a ballot paper?

4. I think your mum needs to put some controls on who you are mixing with.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Pet Jeden

[renton]

14 hours ago, Malky3 said:

 have just seen it. To be fair to Renton he's responded quite honestly but most of his post is speculative. 

We know what we have with the Union we are in and where we are at. We've no idea what a socialist Scottish Government might have done with North Sea oil revenues in the 1970's since that never happened. 

 

To make a positive case for the Union you need more than just a laundry list of things that happened. You need to demonstrate that those events represent some optimal outcome, preferably an outcome that an independent Scotland would not have been able to achieve by itself.

So when I speculate as to how an Indy Scotland would've behaved it's to demonstrate that many other outcomes existed. That speculation is based on the actual experience of other nations, for example, Norway and it's oil fund. 

If you can't demonstrate that the UK handling of the same situation was better, if you can't show why having access to UK diplomats is better, if you can't make a case for why an incorporating over a federal Union, or even just a free trade agreement is better for Scottish trade then you haven't made a positive case for the Union.

[hearthammer]

4 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

1. I don't think you understood my point. 

2. You hate the English? (But presumably love the Belgians)

3. Revolution? What's wrong simply putting an X on a ballot paper?

4. I think your mum needs to put some controls on who you are mixing with.

1. Negatori

2. Negatori.  Yes, have strong affections for Belgium through numerous visits.

3. You're a prophet of doom for Scotland

4. Your nappy needs changing by the proverbial smell emanating from your posts.

Now f*ck off as i'm watching other grown ups playing rugby.  Back to your playdough (remember your bib for your slavers).

Cho now 

[Glenanover]

Just now, hearthammer said:

1. Negatori

2. Negatori.  Yes, have strong affections for Belgium through numerous visits.

3. You're a prophet of doom for Scotland

4. Your nappy needs changing by the proverbial smell emanating from your posts.

Now f*ck off as i'm watching other grown ups playing rugby.  Back to your playdough (remember your bib for your slavers).

Cho now 

What a patronising p***k you are.

[Glenanover]

13 hours ago, Malky3 said:

I'm an engineer. I'm not an expert on finance. I'm simply providing you links to expert comment on how ridiculous the SNP policies are and the Nationalist argument is right now. They are providing the evidence and issuing the "telt". Not me. I'm simply looking after my family and my interests by voting No! If nationalists want my vote they'll need to start proving that an Independent Scotland would be better - and I've seen zero evidence of that to date

Good post.

 

[Pet Jeden]

47 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

13 hours ago, Malky3 said:

Christ - you wasted years of your life didn't you. 
I'm no expert - the guy who wrote the article is - and he supports Scottish Independence. However it seems quite clear to me from his article that the reason is because the Bank Of England would control Sterlings monetary policy - not the Scottish Government! 

I'm sure Denmark is like Greece because they don't control their monetary policy.

No, but Denmark's economy was similar to and very well integrated with the other northern Europe countries in the Euro. Greece's and  Portugal's and Spain's and Italy's were not. That's why after the 2008 crash, their inability to use the traditional safety valve of currency devaluation (like the UK) meant that they ended up with outrageous 40% youth unemployment levels.