A postive case for the union

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

the right of self-determination is universal. There are no exceptions.

Daftness. What if the City of London or Wall Street and Silicone Valley chose independence?

Edited May 12, 2019 by welshbairn

[Tibbermoresaint]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Daftness. What if the City of London or Wall Street chose independence?

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Don't think you're getting the meaning of universal.

[Tibbermoresaint]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Don't think you're getting the meaning of universal.

You're the one who doesn't get it.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

You're the one who doesn't get it.

You said there were no exceptions, so the most geographically and economically favoured parts of countries can just pull out of cooperative nations and keep the loot to themselves? The UN stuff was about getting freedom for African colonies in the 1960s, nothing to do with what's going on now in the First World.

Edited May 12, 2019 by welshbairn

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

You said there were no exceptions, so the most geographically and economically favoured parts of countries can just pull out of cooperative nations and keep the loot to themselves? The UN stuff was about getting freedom for African colonies in the 1960s, nothing to do with what's going on in now the First World.

Universal rights don't depend on whether or not the people exercising them meet with your approval.

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Of course you don't.

Was it intended to be gibberish? 

 

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

I was against independence before 2014 because I have a lot of English and Welsh friends who didn't want to live under Tory rule for perpetuity. When the vote came I thought, f**k them, let them sort out their own mess

1 hour ago, Tartan Tammy 1297 said:

You dont have a solid case for the union.

Stop kidding on anything that you have to say is relevant 

I never said I did. There are benefits. There are costs. People are entitled to weigh these and filter through whatever preference, principle or prejudice they wish and come to their own conclusion. 

Pretending there are no benefits to the Union is a bit unrealistic and makes you appear to be a dogmatic extremist.

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

I was against independence before 2014 because I have a lot of English and Welsh friends who didn't want to live under Tory rule for perpetuity. When the vote came I thought, f**k them, let them sort out their own mess.

My thoughts exactly. Hence choosing Wales and NE England as my examples. 

I don't think the board's McGlashans have actually noticed that we have both suggested that we now favour independence. Too busy tub thumping 

[Tartan Tammy 1297]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

Was it intended to be gibberish? 

 

I never said I did. There are benefits. There are costs. People are entitled to weigh these and filter through whatever preference, principle or prejudice they wish and come to their own conclusion. 

Pretending there are no benefits to the Union is a bit unrealistic and makes you appear to be a dogmatic extremist.

My thoughts exactly. Hence choosing Wales and NE England as my examples. 

I don't think the board's McGlashans have actually noticed that we have both suggested that we now favour independence. Too busy tub thumping 

Naw im not prejudiced or a dogmatic extremist

Just a pist off Scotsman sick off being lied to by Westminster unionists

Who is still waiting for a answer

Since 2014 on this very question

 

Love the lables though your using but believe me they dont and wont stick

Edited May 12, 2019 by Tartan Tammy 1297
Clarity

[Kuro]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

The feeling is mutual you incoherent buffoon. 

 

No it's not. It's international socialism. In the same way as one of the reasons for wanting the UK to remain in the EU is to benefit the economic fringes. 

 

I don't get the point you're making. I'm not talking about parliamentary majorities and keeping the Tories out. I'm talking about a type of solidarity that isn't based on narrow communitarianism. 

No it's not, the UK is a unitary state the EU is a trading block they're completely different, the latter has merit the former is simply a lazy cloak for British nationalism.

[coprolite]

2 minutes ago, Kuro said:

No it's not, the UK is a unitary state the EU is a trading block they're completely different, the latter has merit the former is simply a lazy cloak for British nationalism.

That distinction doesn't impact what I said one little bit. You either know that and are at it, or you are dense. 

Incidentally, the EU is also a bit more than a trading bloc. 

 

[Kuro]

2 minutes ago, coprolite said:

That distinction doesn't impact what I said one little bit. You either know that and are at it, or you are dense. 

Incidentally, the EU is also a bit more than a trading bloc. 

 

And a hell of a lot less than a unitary state.  Your dedication to what you perceive as international socialism must be pretty intense if you're willing to cede sovereignty and control over every policy area of any importance in the polity within which you live to a state that both views and treats it with contempt, and acts in a manner demonstrably against it's best interests in a national hope swathe of areas.  We can affect positive change in rUk without being governed by them.

[coprolite]

1 minute ago, Kuro said:

And a hell of a lot less than a unitary state.  Your dedication to what you perceive as international socialism must be pretty intense if you're willing to cede sovereignty and control over every policy area of any importance in the polity within which you live to a state that both views and treats it with contempt, and acts in a manner demonstrably against it's best interests in a national hope swathe of areas.  We can affect positive change in rUk without being governed by them.

The dogma is strong in this one. 

As is the gibberish. 

And the lack of paying attention. 

I am out 

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

What would our currency be?
Would we have to agree to full freedom of movement?
Also, what will be the consequences regarding our border with rUK as a result of all this stuff?
And how long will all of this take?

The pound.
Yes, which is a good thing as we need it.
UK will leave on May’s deal or similar terms so no issues.
Scotland would be an EU member on independence day, not every piece of legislation has to be changed, there can very easily be a changeover period where policy/legislation is reviewed and then aligned/dealigned, this means we can prioritise what we want to change and in what order.

[Kuro]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

The dogma is strong in this one. 

As is the gibberish. 

And the lack of paying attention. 

I am out 

 

Says the 'international socialist'.

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 hour ago, MixuFixit said:

The tories really are the main roadblock to any convincing positive case for the union. There's a great deal of laudable things labour wants to do and it may well end up doing some of them, but because in Britain everything is about class, the tories will inevitably get in again at some point and un-do it all.

Is this some sort of comedy routine?

[Tibbermoresaint]

25 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

No.

Oh.

[SandyCromarty]

What I find laughable is Englands obsessive attitude towards Brussels, they have been something like 40 years in the EEC/EU and moaned incessantly about laws being made and being ruled from a foreign country, remember the Sun's 'Up Your's Delors', and so on.

We had 300 years of being totally governed by another country, and now we have a diluted parliament which has to do what Westminster decides what it has to do.

Why should we, a country with a clear inherent culture separate from england, have to accept the crumbs from another's table.

Is there any other country that is governed in the way we are? as a feckin colony with a Governor such as Fluffy?

The southern english laugh at us  'Sweaty Socks' and still think we conduct our daily lives at a level well below theirs.

A lot has been made that the Brexit Yes vote in England was based on immigration, that may well be but I firmly believe it was driven mostly by English nationalism.

We are looked upon as second class citizens in the this so called Union and so much so that they placed a first strike nuclear base in Scotland, not in Portsmouth the traditional home of the Royal Navy, now why is that??????????????????????????

Feckin waken up.

Edited May 13, 2019 by SandyCromarty

[NotThePars]

I’m going to make an estimate of “dozens” of countries that are governed the way we are. I reckon if you were liberal with the definition you could name about a dozen in the Russian Federation alone.

[Tibbermoresaint]

5 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I’m going to make an estimate of “dozens” of countries that are governed the way we are. I reckon if you were liberal with the definition you could name about a dozen in the Russian Federation alone.

Name them.

[Tartan Tammy 1297]

5 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I’m going to make an estimate of “dozens” of countries that are governed the way we are. I reckon if you were liberal with the definition you could name about a dozen in the Russian Federation alone.

Your confusing Russia with the Soviet union or USSR