D'Jaffo Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 A man who, on the balance of probability, raped someone. Please do enlighten us all about which specific crime constitutes the line beyond which any kind of partaking in society or rehabilitation is impossible. There is no real line tbh mate but if there was I’d say rape is on the wrong side of it. However, to become properly rehabilitated the person must actually apologise and show remorse for their actions. Goodwillie hasn’t done that bit still maintained he did no wrong. It’s besides the point really as he could apologise for it until he’s blue in the face but there would still be no place for rapists in football. He should “rehabilitate” himself elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 There is no real line tbh mate but if there was I’d say rape is on the wrong side of it. However, to become properly rehabilitated the person must actually apologise and show remorse for their actions. Goodwillie hasn’t done that bit still maintained he did no wrong. It’s besides the point really as he could apologise for it until he’s blue in the face but there would still be no place for rapists in football. He should “rehabilitate” himself elsewhere. Why would he apologise if he maintains he did no wrong? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM. Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 hours ago, D'Jaffo said: Your literal hero in life is a rapist. You have already lost the argument mate. 11 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said: Why did you have to check your notes to check you were in the thread about your own club? Bit silly of you mate. 3 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said: There is no real line tbh mate but if there was I’d say rape is on the wrong side of it. However, to become properly rehabilitated the person must actually apologise and show remorse for their actions. Goodwillie hasn’t done that bit still maintained he did no wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Jaffo Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Ange agrees… mate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Jaffo Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Why would he apologise if he maintains he did no wrong? Why does he maintain he did no wrong when he did? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bully_wee Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said: There is no real line tbh mate but if there was I’d say rape is on the wrong side of it. However, to become properly rehabilitated the person must actually apologise and show remorse for their actions. Goodwillie hasn’t done that bit still maintained he did no wrong. It’s besides the point really as he could apologise for it until he’s blue in the face but there would still be no place for rapists in football. He should “rehabilitate” himself elsewhere. What is the worst severity of criminal there is a place for in football then? Scottish football, along with football in general and wider society, is absolutely laden with criminals who have to re-integrate into society somehow after their crimes. The view of many seems to be that punishment goes above and beyond the prevention of re-offending, the latter representing the primary focus of any non-archaic justice system. Can you think of many jobs which are safer in terms of preventing rape (re-)offence than playing football? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Why does he maintain he did no wrong when he did? On the balance of probabilities.Imo a crime as serious as rape and a label as damaging as rapist should not be decided in a civil court without the burden of proof. Whilst I understand proof can be difficult to obtain in a rape case, it should be a criminal court matter not a civil court matter.How many other rape cases have been decided in a civil court? And more pertinently why was this particular case taken there? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Jaffo Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 What is the worst severity of criminal there is a place for in football then? Scottish football, along with football in general and wider society, is absolutely laden with criminals who have to re-integrate into society somehow after their crimes. The view of many seems to be that punishment goes above and beyond the prevention of re-offending, the latter representing the primary focus of any non-archaic justice system. Can you think of many jobs which are safer in terms of preventing rape (re-)offence than playing football?I wouldn’t say playing football is a job that prevents rape when he raped someone whilst his job was a footballer. David Goodwillie is in a position where he earns a good wage and is allowed to do a job that he loves doing. He’s in a very privileged position when you think about it. A position that he shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy given what he did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav-ffc Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 hours ago, BullyWeeStonehouse said: Falkirk have recalled Anton Dowds from his loan at Arbroath. Hoping that’s a sign they won’t be buying Goodwillie. His loan was up rather being recalled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bully_wee Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 minute ago, D'Jaffo said: I wouldn’t say playing football is a job that prevents rape when he raped someone whilst his job was a footballer. David Goodwillie is in a position where he earns a good wage and is allowed to do a job that he loves doing. He’s in a very privileged position when you think about it. A position that he shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy given what he did. Right, so you don't think him being a footballer inherently lessens the probability of him raping someone while he's playing or training? I'm not sure what logistics you're coming up with but it's about the safest profession I can think of in that regard. You're showing your ideological colours there with that second paragraph. I'm sure in D'Jaffo's punitive utopia things would be much better if some criminals (something Goodwillie technically isn't) were arbitrarily enforced to lead miserable existences after serving their sentences, shovelling gravel and eating gruel. No solution is perfect and rape is, of course, an abhorrent crime. I think it's far better and safer for a likely former rapist to live a public life with the scrutiny and recognition that comes with it than a private one, however. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Jaffo Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Right, so you don't think him being a footballer inherently lessens the probability of him raping someone while he's playing or training? I'm not sure what logistics you're coming up with but it's about the safest profession I can think of in that regard. You're showing your ideological colours there with that second paragraph. I'm sure in D'Jaffo's punitive utopia things would be much better if some criminals (something Goodwillie technically isn't) were arbitrarily enforced to lead miserable existences after serving their sentences, shovelling gravel and eating gruel. No solution is perfect and rape is, of course, an abhorrent crime. I think it's far better and safer for a likely former rapist to live a public life with the scrutiny and recognition that comes with it than a private one, however. Of course it doesn’t lessen it and I’ve just told you why. No job in the world reduces the chance of you raping someone unless you’re talking about locking them in a room by themselves. He can absolutely have a life after what he did but it absolutely shouldn’t be as a footballer where he is adored by a number of people or where he is seen as a “hero” to people. Idk if you have kids, but if you do are you comfortable with them looking up to a guy that did that and worshipping him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Jaffo Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 On the balance of probabilities.Imo a crime as serious as rape and a label as damaging as rapist should not be decided in a civil court without the burden of proof. Whilst I understand proof can be difficult to obtain in a rape case, it should be a criminal court matter not a civil court matter.How many other rape cases have been decided in a civil court? And more pertinently why was this particular case taken there? The reason they go to civil court is because rape cases very rarely end up being taken further in criminal court due to the fact that they are notoriously difficult to prove. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1885 Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 He was found not guilty by judge and jury ? What more must the guy do? Why would he apologise for something he had been found not guilty of? Jesus christ, he wasn't found not guilty. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawfielder Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said: The reason they go to civil court is because rape cases very rarely end up being taken further in criminal court due to the fact that they are notoriously difficult to prove. Can’t be that hard to prove, you’ve already found him guilty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karpaty Lviv Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Good old January transfer Goodwillie rumour debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DobbiesAgent said: I probably wouldn’t have my kids getting a jersey with his name on the back….however does the guy deserve to be chased out of every club he’s linked with by a mob of supporters? When he was found not humility by a civilian jury or random choosing? his life was dragged through a court and found not guilty of the alleged crime? What other lengths can he go to to be allowed to get on with his career Stop talking shite. He was never found not guilty. If you want to defend him or his right to play for falkirk or clyde or whomever, that's up to you, but you're blatantly lying. It never went to criminal court. A Judge found against him in a civil court. https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=d22e28a7-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7 He appealed this judgement, and lost the appeal. Wind yer neck in ya utter melt. Edited January 6, 2022 by AndyDD 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karpaty Lviv Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Raith have signed a striker and Falkirk recalled Dowds. Good news for Clyde. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bully_wee Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said: Of course it doesn’t lessen it and I’ve just told you why. No job in the world reduces the chance of you raping someone unless you’re talking about locking them in a room by themselves. He can absolutely have a life after what he did but it absolutely shouldn’t be as a footballer where he is adored by a number of people or where he is seen as a “hero” to people. Idk if you have kids, but if you do are you comfortable with them looking up to a guy that did that and worshipping him? There is, clearly, a huge difference in risk between jobs which require close contact with individuals and ones which are observed by dozens of peers, and at times hundreds of spectators. I assume you're being deliberately obtuse here. The key in what you're saying is a guy who *did* that. It should, of course, never be forgotten, but nobody among us knows just how different a person Goodwillie is now versus the one who *probably* committee a rape that night. I'd wager pretty different, given the extensive damage it has done to him and the fact he now has a daughter of his own. Folk are also jumping to conclusions about the "hero" tag. I wouldn't use it for him personally given the ambiguity which can arise from its use in isolation, but in purely footballing terms he is an absolute hero to Clyde FC. Just because someone regards a figure as a hero whenever they exist within a 110x60m rectangle does not necessarily mean they grant the same status, or any similar one, to them outside of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, the_bully_wee said: The key in what you're saying is a guy who *did* that. It should, of course, never be forgotten, but nobody among us knows just how different a person Goodwillie is now versus the one who *probably* committee a rape that night. I'd wager pretty different, given the extensive damage it has done to him and the fact he now has a daughter of his own. Aye, he’s the real victim in all of this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bully_wee Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Aye, he’s the real victim in all of this. Make sure to put your crash helmet on next time you leave the house m9 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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