The Spider Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 5 hours ago, jaggyness said: The players currently signed are playing for free, why not put them on what, £70 or £80 per week and then the theory of protecting your saleable assets should pay dividends Don't know whether you've read that far back in this thread Jaggy, but the general consensus appears to have been that £100k p/a is the lowest anyone in this league will be paying their players. So providing our saleable assets annually exceed that sum it will be a very easy decision to vote in favour of the the change. Otherwise we'll find ourselves engaged in a "damned if we do and damned if we don't" debate, so a lot is riding on the clarity of the documentation that the club are currently preparing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow1999 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said: Stay amateur. Leave all the valuables on the front lawn for anyone to nick. Didn't take out an insurance policy. Nothing left and no money to buy new stuff. No heating. No food. Just the sleeping back and cider left. Won't be long now... If we stay amateur, young players have a far greater chance of getting in first team and so this is an incentive to sign. If we go professional it must mean less if not no money for youth teams (many semi pro teams at our level don,t have youth teams as all monies go to first team). What should happen is pressure being put on SFA to allow the Club to get compensation for youth players. Who would be against this idea and SFA have the power to allow this to happen. Other Clubs (and Scotland) ultimately benefit from the likes of Robertson and Shankland. So the Club receiving compensation is fair and just. If the Club change focus to payments and away from development, football will be the loser. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Glasgow1999 said: If we stay amateur, young players have a far greater chance of getting in first team and so this is an incentive to sign. If we go professional it must mean less if not no money for youth teams (many semi pro teams at our level don,t have youth teams as all monies go to first team). What should happen is pressure being put on SFA to allow the Club to get compensation for youth players. Who would be against this idea and SFA have the power to allow this to happen. Other Clubs (and Scotland) ultimately benefit from the likes of Robertson and Shankland. So the Club receiving compensation is fair and just. If the Club change focus to payments and away from development, football will be the loser. You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't just pick the bits of amateurism that benefit you and then moan about the bits that don't. If you want to remain amateur, you accept that we're not going to get any compensation for players. Inventing a third option that we'll somehow be able to get the authorities to change the rules is absolute fantasy stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow1999 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 35 minutes ago, an86 said: You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't just pick the bits of amateurism that benefit you and then moan about the bits that don't. If you want to remain amateur, you accept that we're not going to get any compensation for players. Inventing a third option that we'll somehow be able to get the authorities to change the rules is absolute fantasy stuff. Why can't it be tried? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Glasgow1999 said: Why can't it be tried? For the same reasons that a club would be laughed at if they tried to ask the authorities to do something like move the transfer window for them. If you want amateurism, you have to take the drawbacks. Don't pretend there's some vague way we could have our cake and eat it. Edited October 16, 2019 by an86 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The man with no name Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I am heartened that a number of the doubting Members are saying that if a viable, financial plan is produced then they will vote for the change. I take these people at their word and believe that it is now up to the Committee to produce a plan that shows professionalism will be financially viable for the Club. Other than Financial viability, does anyone have any other objection? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, an86 said: Inventing a third option that we'll somehow be able to get the authorities to change the rules is absolute fantasy stuff. Genuinely don't understand that remark. We all appreciate that the lack of compensation for our players is one of the driving forces behind the proposed change and rightly so. However, and I don't know whether this is fact or hearsay, but it's been claimed that the SFA are the only international association who don't allow compensation, so if that's the case then surely it's their interpretation of FIFA law that's out of sync with everyone else rather than the rules per se. I'm sure the club have obviously queried this with our authorities, but if it's true does anyone know why the SFA take a different view from other countries? It might just be as simple as us being unique as an amateur club in a professional league, and if so then I would understand why it would be fantasy to expect them to change their views, but equally if there are others abroad in a similar situation to us then surely the SFA would need to justify why they take a different (and frankly absurd) stance given what we contribute to youth development, thereby leaving it open to challenge to the Court of Arbritration for Sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdenbeath Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 14 hours ago, jaggyness said: 17 hours ago, cowdenbeath said: You wouldn't get away with paying that under the minimum wage rules. Even if you did the quality of player playing for that would get you relegated. A lower quality of player than is currently playing for nothing? The players playing for nothing at present have the lure of playing at big Hamoden and the facilities that go with it. I would imagine a new Lesser Hamden wouldn't have the same lure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 minute ago, The man with no name said: I am heartened that a number of the doubting Members are saying that if a viable, financial plan is produced then they will vote for the change. I take these people at their word and believe that it is now up to the Committee to produce a plan that shows professionalism will be financially viable for the Club. Other than Financial viability, does anyone have any other objection? Personally no. I've always been against the principle of going professional but like others have also previously said I would vote for it if it was demonstrated that it was the only viable option. What I really hope is that we don't have a scenario where a slow painful death is likely either way.........................i.e. if we stay amateur we end up in the Lowland league and dwindle away to insignificance, but if we turn professional and don't have a sustainable model we erode our reserves over a long period until we have nothing left. I am equally heartened that you now appear to recognise that the Committee should produce such a plan as previously you indicated that wasn't achievable or necessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The man with no name Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, The Spider said: Personally no. I've always been against the principle of going professional but like others have also previously said I would vote for it if it was demonstrated that it was the only viable option. What I really hope is that we don't have a scenario where a slow painful death is likely either way.........................i.e. if we stay amateur we end up in the Lowland league and dwindle away to insignificance, but if we turn professional and don't have a sustainable model we erode our reserves over a long period until we have nothing left. I am equally heartened that you now appear to recognise that the Committee should produce such a plan as previously you indicated that wasn't achievable or necessary. Amateurism is the slow, painful death. This would quicken with relegation to the Lowland League. It is NOT viable. The only alternative is professionalism and finding a viable way to make it work. If Committee do that then we should get the 75%. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow1999 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 46 minutes ago, The Spider said: Genuinely don't understand that remark. We all appreciate that the lack of compensation for our players is one of the driving forces behind the proposed change and rightly so. However, and I don't know whether this is fact or hearsay, but it's been claimed that the SFA are the only international association who don't allow compensation, so if that's the case then surely it's their interpretation of FIFA law that's out of sync with everyone else rather than the rules per se. I'm sure the club have obviously queried this with our authorities, but if it's true does anyone know why the SFA take a different view from other countries? It might just be as simple as us being unique as an amateur club in a professional league, and if so then I would understand why it would be fantasy to expect them to change their views, but equally if there are others abroad in a similar situation to us then surely the SFA would need to justify why they take a different (and frankly absurd) stance given what we contribute to youth development, thereby leaving it open to challenge to the Court of Arbritration for Sport. QPFC have always been a unique club and a proud tradition for Scotland. I dont see why any club or the SFA would object to us receiving compensation for a youth player. Any monies received would just be put back into youth and not to pay players. Teams at our level should be in favour of this, otherwise we would increase the competition for professional players and probably lead to an increase in wage demands at our level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 35 minutes ago, Glasgow1999 said: QPFC have always been a unique club and a proud tradition for Scotland. I dont see why any club or the SFA would object to us receiving compensation for a youth player. Any monies received would just be put back into youth and not to pay players. Teams at our level should be in favour of this, otherwise we would increase the competition for professional players and probably lead to an increase in wage demands at our level. It's quite clear why they'd object. We're an amateur side and are being treated as such. No reason why we should be treated differently to a St Pats or Colville Park. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiders4ever Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 14 hours ago, The man with no name said: If a financially viable plan is produced will you vote for the change? Yes if it includes a decent youth setup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow1999 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 53 minutes ago, an86 said: It's quite clear why they'd object. We're an amateur side and are being treated as such. No reason why we should be treated differently to a St Pats or Colville Park. I think we should be treated differently. With all respect to the other clubs you mentioned, their influence on Scottish and world football is no way near QPFC. The Club should be pushing the influence it has had for Scottish football ... hampden, first international game etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT1867 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Glasgow1999 said: I dont see why any club or the SFA would object to us receiving compensation for a youth player. Why would other clubs suddenly decide to give us compensation when most of them are happy to take players for nothing? If we stay amateur they will keep taking them for nothing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza81 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Glasgow1999 said: I think we should be treated differently. With all respect to the other clubs you mentioned, their influence on Scottish and world football is no way near QPFC. The Club should be pushing the influence it has had for Scottish football ... hampden, first international game etc You seem totally delusional. You are a mid-table League 2 side, as soon as you move ground you will have as much influence as Elgin City within Scottish football. No matter how you want to paint it. If you stay amateur you will be out of the league within a few years. No doubt about it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, Glasgow1999 said: I think we should be treated differently. With all respect to the other clubs you mentioned, their influence on Scottish and world football is no way near QPFC. The Club should be pushing the influence it has had for Scottish football ... hampden, first international game etc We have a great history, but we're not better than any club or any rule because of it. It all has that whiff of delusional "We Are The People" superiority that others go for. In relation to our status, I'm significantly more interested in our future, than I am our history. Our history will always be there, but I'd quite like to have a competitive league club to support in the years and decades to come. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Spider Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 12/10/2019 at 21:13, Bring Your Own Socks said: Good game with Fans v Old Crocks tonight. After VAR score finished at 2-2 with the other 7 for the crocks deemed offside. https://youtu.be/evTlidW6e0M Here are "highlights". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Reilly Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 If players perform well, they will leave regardless of whether we are professional or not?True, and the club should be rightly proud to be a stepping stone for the careers of players who move up the divisions or onto earn international caps. I would never want us to hold back any player who has a chance to play at a higher level, but recently they have been moving to our league rivals, giving up more of their time to travel to clubs out with the Glasgow area they live and work in, to earn some more money at clubs that are playing at the same level as us with similar chances of promotion....or relegation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow1999 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ben Reilly said: 19 hours ago, Glasgow1999 said: If players perform well, they will leave regardless of whether we are professional or not? True, and the club should be rightly proud to be a stepping stone for the careers of players who move up the divisions or onto earn international caps. I would never want us to hold back any player who has a chance to play at a higher level, but recently they have been moving to our league rivals, giving up more of their time to travel to clubs out with the Glasgow area they live and work in, to earn some more money at clubs that are playing at the same level as us with similar chances of promotion....or relegation. Yes but some who moved were not first team regulars and their replacements have been as good if not better! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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