Artificial Pitches. . . .Need to go!

[Aberdeen Cowden]

26 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Aye good idea, , lets just stick to football eh, it has its own studies, just because you can't find any supporting your argument you move onto another sport. 

Just google it , like you usually do and you’ll find a myriad of studies. You won’t find much if you google common sense though. eh?

[CountyFan]

5 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Aye that's why all the leading lights of professional football are the ones with artificial pitches, you know, your Hamiltons, Livingston, Kilmarnock, Cove Rangers etc, whilst Real Madrid, Manchester United, Ajax, Milan, Liverpool etc are just lagging behind with grass.  

It makes perfect sense for lower league clubs to have them; less maintenance, no need to hire training facilities, income from pitch hire etc, but the top flight should be quality grass pitches only or stay doon. 

 

The top flight should be the clubs who earned their place there through last season's league placings and absolutely f**k all else. 

[Cyclizine]

7 minutes ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

Just google it , like you usually do and you’ll find a myriad of studies. You won’t find much if you google common sense though. eh?

Did you go to the Medical School of Hard Knocks followed by postgraduate study at the University of Life, by any chance?

 

[CountyFan]

4 hours ago, Demented Zebra said:

Plastic pitches make a mockery of the Scottish Premiership.  Utter joke.  

You don't even understand the offside rule, what qualifies you for an opinion on this? 

[CountyFan]

26 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

All I know is that irrespective of the injury situation, which appears to conclude that it isn't a factor, there's something about artificial turf that just doesn't work aesthetically. 

For me, how a sport 'looks' is pretty important and football on grass looks and feels better. I personally think that a bit of variability in the playing surface just makes it a more interesting game. 

I'd compare it to horse racing. I never watch flat racing on anything other than grass, and national hunt racing over soft ground with the turf and mud flying is a great spectacle. I think that artificial surfaces just look too clinical and controlled and somehow seems to rob sport of a bit of 'blood and guts'. It's not subbuteo or a FIFA game after all. 

I'm not bothered if they are safers, or if the ball bounce is more consistent or whatever so my argument isn't necessarily rational. And therefore impossible to argue against. 

If how it looked was important absolutely nobody would watch shite games at quarter full stadiums. This site is testament to the fact that many people do, gladly. 

This 'debate' is like trying to argue against climate change, it is one side of evidence and facts versus one side of stubborn old duffers who cant accept that progress changes things sometimes. 

There is no increase in injury incidence versus grass pitches, this is a fact. There are far fewer postponements, this is a fact. They help with the financial sustainability of football generally and of lower league football in particular, this is a fact. Anything else is just white noise. 

[Detournement]

Games on plastic are pish to watch regardless of injuries. The quality of play is lower. 

When one team with a good grass pitch decides to switch because plastic is better give me a shout. 

[Valentino Bolognese]

Just now, CountyFan said:

If how it looked was important absolutely nobody would watch shite games at quarter full stadiums. This site is testament to the fact that many people do, gladly. 

This 'debate' is like trying to argue against climate change, it is one side of evidence and facts versus one side of stubborn old duffers who cant accept that progress changes things sometimes. 

There is no increase in injury incidence versus grass pitches, this is a fact. There are far fewer postponements, this is a fact. They help with the financial sustainability of football generally and of lower league football in particular, this is a fact. Anything else is just white noise. 

I'm not disagreeing in any way with the evidence. That's not something I do. So I'm not sure if your comments about injuries etc are aimed at me? If so, I'm afraid you need to aim somewhere else. 

My point is that I'm not arguing from a position of empirical evidence and I'm happy to admit that I'm being, in this case, irrational. CP Snow might have a view on it as to me there's an aesthetic element because to me, how it looks is important. If you can accept that there is an 'artistic' element to football, then I'm afraid that you can't dismiss it as 'white noise' - that's a category error becuase that's not the area of argumentation. To me vinyl sounds better than digital, but there's not a lot of empirical evidence to back that up. However digital is an objectively superior medium for all sorts of reasons. Do you see what I'm getting at?

You'll note I'm a St Johnstone fan. Shite games at quarter full stadium is our modus operandi. 

[CountyFan]

Just now, Valentino Bolognese said:

I'm not disagreeing in any way with the evidence. That's not something I do. So I'm not sure if your comments about injuries etc are aimed at me? If so, I'm afraid you need to aim somewhere else. 

My point is that I'm not arguing from a position of empirical evidence and I'm happy to admit that I'm being, in this case, irrational. CP Snow might have a view on it as to me there's an aesthetic element because to me, how it looks is important. If you can accept that there is an 'artistic' element to football, then I'm afraid that you can't dismiss it as 'white noise' - that's a category error becuase that's not the area of argumentation. To me vinyl sounds better than digital, but there's not a lot of empirical evidence to back that up. However digital is an objectively superior medium for all sorts of reasons. Do you see what I'm getting at?

You'll note I'm a St Johnstone fan. Shite games at quarter full stadium is our modus operandi. 

Just the first paragraph was aimed at your post, my apologies. 

This is one of my favourite subjects to rant about (primarily because I'm right about it) and I got a bit carried away! 

I absolutely get your point.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

2 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

Did you go to the Medical School of Hard Knocks followed by postgraduate study at the University of Life, by any chance?

 

Lost the argument then? Cheers.

[kennysmassiveego]

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Games on plastic are pish to watch regardless of injuries. The quality of play is lower. 

When one team with a good grass pitch decides to switch because plastic is better give me a shout. 

Kilmarnock FC 

Your definition of better probably doesn’t concur with ours 

[PauloPerth]

6 hours ago, CountyFan said:

If how it looked was important absolutely nobody would watch shite games at quarter full stadiums. This site is testament to the fact that many people do, gladly. 

This 'debate' is like trying to argue against climate change, it is one side of evidence and facts versus one side of stubborn old duffers who cant accept that progress changes things sometimes. 

There is no increase in injury incidence versus grass pitches, this is a fact. There are far fewer postponements, this is a fact. They help with the financial sustainability of football generally and of lower league football in particular, this is a fact. Anything else is just white noise. 

 

5 hours ago, CountyFan said:

This is one of my favourite subjects to rant about (primarily because I'm right about it) and I got a bit carried away! 

I absolutely get your point.

You're talking pish.

Nothing to do with injuries, it's a different game to watch on artificial pitches, and less enjoyable to watch.  Personal opinion, obviously.

Can you explain why:

1. The vast majority of professional players, coaches and managers prefer grass pitches?

2. So very few of the top clubs throughout Europe play on artificial pitches?

 

No offence, but I think there's more value in the opinion of people involved in the sport  than some daftie on the internet who's a bit full of his own opinion. Fact.

[LIVIFOREVER]

7 hours ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

Just google it , like you usually do and you’ll find a myriad of studies. You won’t find much if you google common sense though. eh?

[LIVIFOREVER]

46 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

 

You're talking pish.

Nothing to do with injuries, it's a different game to watch on artificial pitches, and less enjoyable to watch.  Personal opinion, obviously.

Can you explain why:

1. The vast majority of professional players, coaches and managers prefer grass pitches?

2. So very few of the top clubs throughout Europe play on artificial pitches?

 

No offence, but I think there's more value in the opinion of people involved in the sport  than some daftie on the internet who's a bit full of his own opinion. Fact.

Interesting that when they did a survey of the footballers from Premiership teams, they didn't include the teams that have artificial pitches, why do you think that was?

There isn't anyone more qualified to give their opinion on artificial surfaces than the players who play and train on them regularly, ridiculous to leave them out a survey.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

8 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Interesting that when they did a survey of the footballers from Premiership teams, they didn't include the teams that have artificial pitches, why do you think that was?

There isn't anyone more qualified to give their opinion on artificial surfaces than the players who play and train on them regularly, ridiculous to leave them out a survey.

Just out of interest, have Livi got a plastic pitch?

[nsr]

Livi have got a plastic everything.

[Seventeen23]

I don't like plastic pitches personally, but i understand its a money maker for most of the teams that use them.  

I played at Livi a number of times shortly after it was laid and couldn't believe how bad it was, the plastic was too long and there was that many rubber pellets that your grip was affected. I'd presume that this is better now once it's settled and worn in a bit but can completely understand the criticism that pitch took last year. 

Most teams will train on a plastic pitch in the lead up to a game against Livi/Killie/Hamilton so the bleating and moaning about them is just an excuse. 

[Durnford]

2 hours ago, nsr said:

Livi have got a plastic everything.

Including backs to our seats.

[Durnford]

42 minutes ago, Seventeen23 said:

I don't like plastic pitches personally, but i understand its a money maker for most of the teams that use them.  

I played at Livi a number of times shortly after it was laid and couldn't believe how bad it was, the plastic was too long and there was that many rubber pellets that your grip was affected. I'd presume that this is better now once it's settled and worn in a bit but can completely understand the criticism that pitch took last year. 

Most teams will train on a plastic pitch in the lead up to a game against Livi/Killie/Hamilton so the bleating and moaning about them is just an excuse. 

Its funny really because my eldest son has played on it a few times and remarks on how good it is. That being said he normally plays on other artificial five a side surfaces so his starting point may be different although he does play on grass some times but that's in municipal  sites so the condition is probably pretty poor.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

12 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Interesting that when they did a survey of the footballers from Premiership teams, they didn't include the teams that have artificial pitches, why do you think that was?

There isn't anyone more qualified to give their opinion on artificial surfaces than the players who play and train on them regularly, ridiculous to leave them out a survey.

For the same reason that those fans of clubs with Tesco pitches take any criticism of their wonder surface personally?

[Aberdeen Cowden]

3 hours ago, Seventeen23 said:

I don't like plastic pitches personally, but i understand its a money maker for most of the teams that use them.  

I played at Livi a number of times shortly after it was laid and couldn't believe how bad it was, the plastic was too long and there was that many rubber pellets that your grip was affected. I'd presume that this is better now once it's settled and worn in a bit but can completely understand the criticism that pitch took last year. 

Most teams will train on a plastic pitch in the lead up to a game against Livi/Killie/Hamilton so the bleating and moaning about them is just an excuse. 

"Training" on a plastic pitch  isn't the same as playing on one though.