Season over

[Guest]

The same clubs would have been relegated by the result if it was changed by 2 votes on the original vote. (What I mean is the same clubs are in the same positions at the bottom of the league from the time of original vote)

Its only my take.

The landscape has changed since the original vote. The vote was based on a normal season. We don't have that. We now look likely to have less margins involved in trying to get into a first division next season because there will be an increase in relegation from the Premier league, due to the decision to promote only.

That is a fundamental change in the circumstances that clubs will have based their decisions on during the first vote as the first vote was based on the conclusion of a normal season.

[Che Dail]

20 minutes ago, Marten said:

I can't see the vote on conferences being reversed. The new entrants were promised tier 6 and it would suddenly relegate a number of First Division clubs.

Only six clubs would be in the bottom division, the same who finished bottom of the 3 conferences last season as well. 

[Countryman]

25 minutes ago, Marten said:

I can't see the vote on conferences being reversed. The new entrants were promised tier 6 and it would suddenly relegate a number of First Division clubs.

Exactly, the decision has been made.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Countryman said:

Exactly, the decision has been made.

Weren't we all critical of another association for taking this approach, when the landscape had changed for their membership and they didnt put the vote back to clubs, cracking on regardless?

We make decisions based on one set of circumstances, when those circumstances change, we should go back and check the decision was right and let those affected by changes decide the way forward. If the vote then remains the same then no one can complain.

(particularly when the circumstances have been outwith everyones control and the resulting decision lowers the margins for clubs to progress next year when set against what the outcome would have been with a normal end to the season this season)

[Countryman]

It's a matter of opinions.

We don't have to agree.

[FairWeatherFan]

35 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Only six clubs would be in the bottom division, the same who finished bottom of the 3 conferences last season as well. 

Dunipace and Inverkeithing are in the bottom 6 of this year's Conferences, and Eyemouth have secretly been playing all year as well.

Never knew that.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Countryman said:

It's a matter of opinions.

We don't have to agree.

I know i just like debating stuff

[Ormi]

3 hours ago, Marten said:

I can't see the vote on conferences being reversed. The new entrants were promised tier 6 and it would suddenly relegate a number of First Division clubs.

The new entrants were promised tier 7

[Che Dail]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Dunipace and Inverkeithing are in the bottom 6 of this year's Conferences, and Eyemouth have secretly been playing all year as well.

Never knew that.

You mean last year's conferences...? and secretly playing Subbuteo all year doesn't count.

 

[Anychance]

The new entrants were promised tier 7

And my team was promised 34 games to try and get promotion but that’s no happening now either things change

[FairWeatherFan]

3 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Only six clubs would be in the bottom division, the same who finished bottom of the 3 conferences last season as well. 

 

4 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

You mean last year's conferences...? and secretly playing Subbuteo all year doesn't count.

 

The six clubs that would make up a Second Division didnt all finish in the bottom of the 3 Conferences.

[Che Dail]

23 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

 

The six clubs that would make up a Second Division didnt all finish in the bottom of the 3 Conferences.

They all finished bottom 4 of each conference in season 18/19, with the exception of Easthouses who finished 8th out of 13.

[gaz5]

I can't see the vote on conferences being reversed. The new entrants were promised tier 6 and it would suddenly relegate a number of First Division clubs.

No one was promised any Tier, certainly not Tier 6 for the new entrants.

[Che Dail]

Season 18/19 and Season 19/20 combined, PPG:

1	Kinnoull	2.06
2	Glenrothes	1.95
3	Leith	1.78
4	Haddington	1.5
5	Heriot Watt	1.49
6	Preston	1.47
7	Dalkeith	1.41
8	St Andrews	1.39
9	Inverkeithing	1.39
10	Coldstream	1.33
11	Dunipace	1.31
12	Oakley	1.23
13	Edinburgh Utd	1.18
14	Burntisland	1.02
15	Stirling Uni	0.98
16	Easthouses	0.93
17	Arniston	0.7
18	Peebles	0.68
19	Ormiston	0.58
20	Hawick	0.57
21	Craigroyston	0.51
22	Tweedmouth	0.42
23	Eyemouth	0

It is the same top 16, with the exception of Easthouses  / Ormiston.

To explain the upsurge in PPG for Dunipace and IHS - Look at the 'follow on' standard of Conference B sides they faced in 18/19:  Overall league winner Bonnyrigg challenged for LL title, Bo'ness won the Premier; Tranent and Dundonald top-half; LTHV and Tynecastle won their conferences plus they had established Junior Super and Premier clubs in Sauchie, Dalkeith and Haddington.  Only Eyemouth of the bottom 7 PPG clubs featured in that league - clearly the toughest conference.

And the absence of fixtures against the former Juniors SL clubs helps explain the high PPG margin for Kinnoull and Glenrothes.

The top 16 have been consistent over the 2 seasons, but instead of rewarding performance,  we go through the whole thing again for fear of 'relegating' the bottom clubs and upsetting the aspiring clubs, none of whom meet the ground criteria.  It is ridiculous.

The first vote on structure was done 3/4 thro a season.  And in the latest one the board leads with 'Do you agree...?".   That's a loaded question and not impartial.  It leans towards a 'yes' vote and more neutral language should have been used.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Che Dail

[Guest]

Fair play to you, that must have taken some time! I certainly didn't go into that much detail!

So in reality the 3 teams finishing bottom of each conference this season (now), were most likely to finish bottom 3 at the end of this season (normal circumstances), and have the lowest ppg total over the last 2 seasons, would be the ones who move into a second division if the leagues were split right now for next season.

 

[Che Dail]

3 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Fair play to you, that must have taken some time! I certainly didn't go into that much detail!

So in reality the 3 teams finishing bottom of each conference this season (now), were most likely to finish bottom 3 at the end of this season (normal circumstances), and have the lowest ppg total over the last 2 seasons, would be the ones who move into a second division if the leagues were split right now for next season.

 

Yes - other than Ormiston being very slightly ahead on PPG than Easthouses this season compared to the 2 year amount.

But then Easthouses earned higher points in Conference A 18/19 alongside Tweedmouth, Peebles, Hawick, Arniston - so you could argue that was the easiest conference of the three to pick up points - based on those clubs tally this season.

The fact is we've had 2 seasons to determine league positions - that's what the conferences were for, and that's exactly what they've done.  It is a fair reflection and we should be going to Premier / First / Second, in my opinion.

 

[Joe Exotic]

43 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Season 18/19 and Season 19/20 combined, PPG:

1	Kinnoull	2.06
2	Glenrothes	1.95
3	Leith	1.78
4	Haddington	1.5
5	Heriot Watt	1.49
6	Preston	1.47
7	Dalkeith	1.41
8	St Andrews	1.39
9	Inverkeithing	1.39
10	Coldstream	1.33
11	Dunipace	1.31
12	Oakley	1.23
13	Edinburgh Utd	1.18
14	Burntisland	1.02
15	Stirling Uni	0.98
16	Easthouses	0.93
17	Arniston	0.7
18	Peebles	0.68
19	Ormiston	0.58
20	Hawick	0.57
21	Craigroyston	0.51
22	Tweedmouth	0.42
23	Eyemouth	0

It is the same top 16, with the exception of Easthouses  / Ormiston.

To explain the upsurge in PPG for Dunipace and IHS - Look at the 'follow on' standard of Conference B sides they faced in 18/19:  Overall league winner Bonnyrigg challenged for LL title, Bo'ness won the Premier; Tranent and Dundonald top-half; LTHV and Tynecastle won their conferences plus they had established Junior Super and Premier clubs in Sauchie, Dalkeith and Haddington.  Only Eyemouth of the bottom 7 PPG clubs featured in that league - clearly the toughest conference.

And the absence of fixtures against the former Juniors SL clubs helps explain the high PPG margin for Kinnoull and Glenrothes.

The top 16 have been consistent over the 2 seasons, but instead of rewarding performance,  we go through the whole thing again for fear of 'relegating' the bottom clubs and upsetting the aspiring clubs, none of whom meet the ground criteria.  It is ridiculous.

The first vote on structure was done 3/4 thro a season.  And in the latest one the board leads with 'Do you agree...?".   That's a loaded question and not impartial.  It leans towards a 'yes' vote and more neutral language should have been used.

 

 

Absolute waste of an hour of your life while also being totally pointless (pardon the pun)

F4ck Carole Baskin 

[Che Dail]

11 minutes ago, Joe Exotic said:

Absolute waste of an hour of your life while also being totally pointless (pardon the pun)

F4ck Carole Baskin 

You're probably right. But still, SO AM I! 

And as for Carole Baskin: I'd rather not, thanks.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Che Dail

[Ormi]

3 hours ago, Anychance said:

And my team was promised 34 games to try and get promotion but that’s no happening now either things change

The new entrants were never going to come into the Premier division though. I don’t think that ever was an option. 

[Che Dail]

Interview with Kevin Smith, Glenrothes.  He makes some great points.

Please listen to this: