OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-

[DukDukGoose]

25 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Hes contracted at Rangers until 2025 so i suspect if hes good enough that you want to keep then youll find hes also too expensive.

Strange loan for Hearts, really. Inter-league loans can make sense for clubs without financial pulling power as, especially from Celtic/Rangers, you can get someone better than what you could afford permanently. For Hearts though? Seems lose lose. Youre developing a player for a rival while, at best, getting 1 season out them, and also losing out financially in every way. Feels like you couldve signed someone to do what Lowry will permanently while also getting some longer term benefit.

Didn't you say the opposite when we signed Scales?

[RandomGuy.]

20 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said:

Didn't you say the opposite when we signed Scales?

Scales is class and you'll struggle to find a better LCB for a back 3.

Lowry is an unproven kid who thinks hes made it already.

[JamieThomas]

The dream of fielding 10 centre mids rolls on. Prefer if he didn't look like he's more into raking buckets than raking passes but that's life baby

[Tony Wonder]

10 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Scales is class and you'll struggle to find a better LCB for a back 3.

Lowry is an unproven kid who thinks hes made it already.

Never realised you said that about Scales. A bizarre contradiction. If Hearts recruitment team think he's good enough, just as Aberdeen's did for Scales, what's the difference in that regard? You're either taking on a losing situation or you're not. 

[Tony Wonder]

14 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Scales is class and you'll struggle to find a better LCB for a back 3.

Lowry is an unproven kid who thinks hes made it already.

Also a bit of a bizarre assertion that Scales was class pre Aberdeen and Lowry was unproven despite being 4 years younger and having more appearances for Rangers than Scales had for Celtic.

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

Never realised you said that about Scales. A bizarre contradiction. If Hearts recruitment team think he's good enough, just as Aberdeen's did for Scales, what's the difference in that regard? You're either taking on a losing situation or you're not. 

Loans are only worth it if they're better than what you can afford permanently, or you can sign them after the loan deal.

Scales was both, Lowry is neither.

Just now, Tony Wonder said:

Also a bit of a bizarre assertion that Scales was class pre Aberdeen and Lowry was unproven despite being 4 years younger and having more appearances for Rangers than Scales had for Celtic.

Scales was sensational in Irish football.

[Tony Wonder]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Scales was both, Lowry is neither.

Cop out tbh. Either loaning from clubs in the league is shite or it isn't. 

Which I think it is. But I think it is for all clubs of a certain level.

Lowry has been looked upon as a top talent for years, whether he ends up being one is a different  matter. I am entirely happy with Lowry as an addition in terms of ability. I'm not in terms of where he's coming from.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Tony Wonder said:

Cop out tbh. Either loaning from clubs in the league is shite or it isn't. 

Nah, its cutting your nose off to spite your face.

You could turn down the chance to sign a better player who knows the league and is proven in it, to sign a player whos worse and needs to acclimatise, and lose both for nothing 12 months later.

Loans from clubs in your own league is right down the bottom of the "ideal signing" ladder, but its not always the worst option IMO.

I just don't see Lowry adding enough to Hearts for it to be worth it.

[Alberto Spencer]

Barrie McKay is back training after his operation and says he'll be ready in a couple of weeks, but he's had no pre-season so may take longer to be available. Mackay-Steven left us at the end of last season after almost a whole season injured so Lowry gives another option . If he plays well he'll get games, if not he won't and rangers will recall him in January and put him out to one of the other two Scottish Teams that were in for him (as alleged by a journalist close to the story ).

Either way I don't see the loan deal as any big risk. He'll miss the games V Rangers but a few Hearts players missed them last season too ho ho!

Scales was dire nearly every game I've seen him at Tynecastle BUT obviously played much better in other games and Aberdeen were very happy with him overall - which is what really counts. Different positions mean different aims as defenders play most 90mins while attackers are sub/get subbed frequently. But hey! Even Charlie Mulgrew played better than Scales at Tynecastle, well just about......

[DC92]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Hes contracted at Rangers until 2025 so i suspect if hes good enough that you want to keep then youll find hes also too expensive.

Strange loan for Hearts, really. Inter-league loans can make sense for clubs without financial pulling power as, especially from Celtic/Rangers, you can get someone better than what you could afford permanently. For Hearts though? Seems lose lose. Youre developing a player for a rival while, at best, getting 1 season out them, and also losing out financially in every way. Feels like you couldve signed someone to do what Lowry will permanently while also getting some longer term benefit.

Putting aside the rights and wrongs of loaning from the OF and Lowry's merits as a player, we've probably spent over £1 million on fees this summer and the squad is pretty much finished. I really doubt we've got room in the budget to spend another six-figure fee on a young player with sell-on potential to be back-up/competition to McKay. You're therefore looking at opportunistic loans to top up the quality in the squad at minimal cost.

If we spend a few grand a week on a loan player and they help us to finish 3rd then it's absolutely not a financial lose-lose. Scales' goal v Rangers ať Pittodrie last season, which was crucial in winning them millions through European football, being a good recent example of that.

This also potentially allows us to punt Jorge Grant to some English lower league dross for £100k, so that would be nice.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, DC92 said:

Putting aside the rights and wrongs of loaning from the OF and Lowry's merits as a player, we've probably spent over £1 million on fees this summer and the squad is pretty much finished. I really doubt we've got room in the budget to spend another six-figure fee on a young player with sell-on potential to be back-up/competition to McKay. You're therefore looking at opportunistic loans to top up the quality in the squad at minimal cost.

If we spend a few grand a week on a loan player and they help us to finish 3rd then it's absolutely not a financial lose-lose. Scales' goal v Rangers ať Pittodrie last season, which was crucial in winning them millions through European football, being a good recent example of that.

This also potentially allows us to punt Jorge Grant to some English lower league dross for £100k, so that would be nice.

This is fair.

[StellarHibee]

The comedy writes itself with this lot.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

18 hours ago, Tony Wonder said:

I think it is different to Cochrane tbh. Guys like him you're borrowing from a different league, not nurturing talent for someone you don't like. 

Also, there's always the chance that if a PL player does well you can get them long term, we've done it,Hibs and Aberdeen too, because the English teams aren't really fussed. Whereas if someone like Lowry stands out they are just taken back and there's no chance of it being permanent. 

Although if he does tear up the SPFL to the point where we lose him in January then by definition he’ll have done a good job for us.. Much would depend on who else Rangers sign in that position and whether they get injured in December 

ultimately the wisdom of this deal rests on how he performs much of his wages we’re expected to cover. We’ll soon find out the former but are unlikely to know the latter

if Rangers are footing the whole bill then at least it’s extra depth and isn’t taking up resources that could be used to strengthen elsewhere. If we’re taking it all on then we’re effectively paying  lots of money to develop a player for another club and it’s going to require top quality performances to justify 

one thing you can be sure of is that if he’s having a few bad games there will be people with “sources” saying that he’s costing Hearts huge amounts and the worse things go the bigger those amounts will be

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

I think my biggest problem with this Scales chat is the suggestion he's no fucking rubbish

[VincentGuerin]

Feeling pretty positive after yesterday.

There have been plenty of grumbles over the summer about lack of activity and how light the squad is, but suddenly things look pretty bright.

Kent wins headers. Early days, but encouraging so far. Keen to see him and Halkett together, but that looks much more positive at the back.

We're suddenly full of options in midfield and that's an attack that has good variety to it and a range of sources that look likely to get goals. Assuming we don't run into mad injuries again, we're going to have good options on the bench every week. Not keen on taking a player from the stickies, but Lowry showed enough yesterday that he'll make a good contribution, and since he's here now we might as well just get on with it.

Early games are always dangerous in terms of reading too much into them, and obviously St Johnstone are shite. But I think that performance yesterday was a good starting point for a team that obviously still has to gel together.

[Aylo vanal]

Lowry was brilliant yesterday when he came on, always looking to create something. 

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

If, and given last couple of years we almost certainly won't at any point, we get everyone fit then we're a 2nd right back away from having excellent depth in every position.  The forward options all of a sudden look miles better than last year.

I think Grant and a couple of others will probably leave but it's looking like a strong 25 man squad

[Stylish Kid]

22 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

The comedy writes itself with this lot.

Don't get it?

[Stylish Kid]

15 hours ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

I think my biggest problem with this Scales chat is the suggestion he's no fucking rubbish

Dons fans are just seething that they did jack shit at Livi yesterday other than hospitalise Bruce Anderson so are coming over here giving grief

[lennyzer0]

4 minutes ago, Stylish Kid said:

Don't get it?

Oh good, not just me then.