New clubs in the West of Scotland

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Spyro said:

...Name 1 'established' club who's ground is so poor that their status in the league system should be questioned? 

Are Peebles Rovers not supposed to be on thin ice in an EoS context? Agree with your general point though.

[Spyro]

13 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Are Peebles Rovers not supposed to be on thin ice in an EoS context? Agree with your general point though.

Peebles have been on thin ice since the 50's with that ground in one way or another

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

On 22/05/2023 at 13:27, Arthurlie1981 said:

I think the league are reaching that point now where I believe you cannot have a new ground share unless it is on an astro. The mess that is Guys Meadow during the season is shocking.

Where I have a problem is clubs leaving the area they are from to move to a ground share well outwith their area. That's what does not allow you to build a fan base. I have seen St Cadocs a few times this season and the home support was negligible and that is, in part, due to the over 16 mile round trip to where the club are from.

No clubs should have been or should be in the future accepted without a viable home ground within a decent distance of where they are from and with an achievable plan to meet certain standards within an agreed timeframe. 

There are clubs in the premier league now being bankrolled by millionaires with massive wage bills but no tangible plan for developing a decent ground etc, even if its through grant or otherwise, that in itself is nonsense. 

On 22/05/2023 at 15:15, Arthurlie1981 said:

I am in favour of having different standards at the different levels (similar to the English non league set up). Here is an example off the top of my head. 

Tier 10 (Div 4)

Secure ground tenancy within a ground no more than 2 miles from your home area, ground with a barrier around it, catering and toilet facilities in the vicinity of the ground. Show that you are making the club part of the community through links with other community organisations.

Tier 9  & 8 (Div 3 & 2)

As above but with the addition of a covered enclosure and improvement to toilet and catering facilities

Tier 7 (Div 1)

As above but with stepped terracing and be showing that you are working towards your licence with an agreed timeframe with the league

Tier 6 (Premier)

As above and and SFA Licence

Clubs would be relegated if they do not make these improvements within 1 season of entry into the league. This would stop clubs coming in and spending their way to the top while not having either the facilities (Rossvale/Loccos) or using someones else's while spending cash on the players (St Cadocs)

Whatever anyone thinks of Darvel (and by the looks of it Burgh) at least they are spending the cash and making improvements to their facilities so I have no problem with them doing what they do.

I know this probably isn't the right thread but it worries me that 2 new clubs can enter and make their way up  the leagues without the necessary infrastructure off the park.

 

Totally agree with your idea. 

9 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Seems to be mainly for athletics but that's also true for Edinburgh City in League One:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/new-athletics-venue-dumbartons-posties-29147153

Theres no football pitch there, that ‘grass’ area you see in that picture was actually the field sports area for javelin etc, its not enclosed, it has no real spectator area either. 

[paul-r-cfc]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Are Peebles Rovers not supposed to be on thin ice in an EoS context? Agree with your general point though.

There are plans afoot for them to move into the Old Town

 

https://www.bordertelegraph.com/news/23480210.peebles-public-glimpse-plans-transform-sporting-facilities/

[Guest]

2 hours ago, PossilYM said:

Nothing whatsoever happened in Airdrie in my several visits.

Good people trying build something.

Just offering my opinion on facilities or the lack of in a one sided cage.

I'm back bitches.

I know your just making valid points on what you experience rather than a blind attack on the cages, brother.

We would appear to be stuck with the cages facility in non league for now. My starting point in all of this was my non-concern regarding fan facilities, as generally I don't use them. 

If the cages are here to stay then there does need to be a minimum standard i.e. toilets, catering, an acceptable viewing area. It's for better men than I to determine what is acceptable in regards to location of toilets and catering, and also what constitutes an acceptable viewing area.

What the assessors need to be aware of is that not all cages are physically identical inside or immediately outside.

Please be aware though; this in no way is an admission or acceptance of defeat or being wrong.

I will continue to fight the fight where I encounter any injustice. Why is there no superhero emoji or better a 'Billy Butcher' one.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Are Peebles Rovers not supposed to be on thin ice in an EoS context? Agree with your general point though.

oooh friend.

All I'm trying to say off that rules on fan facilities and pitch quality applies universally not just to newbies.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, PossilYM said:

As a unofficial groundhopper or more to the point, look and see what games are on and where, Tollcross last night and the Tin Pale. I'm fussy where my non league pound goes.

Nae cover or catering and the club can forget it.

I might go once for curiosity but then that pitch/cage is off the list.

You keep calling yourself a groundhopper and we are done.

I keep coming across like I'm having a go at traditionalists, but is there not still a number of old junior grounds with no cover. Can't be sure of any of top of my head as it's pre-lockdowns since I was at at any.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Spyro said:

Would this not just create a "junior league" full of fly-by-night clubs playing out of sports centres who are 'trapped' at tier 7-9 but happy to pound the league every season and stay where they are. 

While long established clubs with proper grounds are left a level below having to play these teams every week... 

I wouldn't think so surely the proper grounds if they meet the standard will be in the licenced tiers. The fly-by's would be at the bottom until they improve or will be told gtf if they dont. Or am I being too simplistic.

Having thought some more about it the Sports Centres ones should never be acceptable as 'sharing facilities' must be a no-no.

Edited May 23, 2023 by HorseyGhirl

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Spyro said:

I just feel integrating them into the leagues is dangerous. That's why we have an amatuer setup... 

You just need to look at some clubs having to play coaches outfield and not fancying a trip to Campbeltown... Amatuer stuff by a club who are charging (or should be) admission to watch a kick about in a sports centre 

I think we need to be careful not to tar all of these clubs with the same brush.

As for Thorn v the Pupils it was only last season that some clubs cried off because of a Europa cup final don't remember them being called amateurish. It needs to be one rule for all.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Do you mean Cambuslang? What's wrong their park?

 

I remember posts earlier about the pitch. This is why I didn't want to name any as I didn't want the discussion to become about individual clubs. For me it's more about creating acceptable standards across the tiers.

[paul-r-cfc]

Issue with some of these parks is going to be when a Talbot, Pollok, Clydebank etc. end up with a really important game at, for example, Donald Dewar. (I choose that as it is one I am familiar with.)

All three of those clubs are capable of bringing a couple of hundred away supporters, especially with it being within Glasgow, right next to a station, and so close to Clydebank. Can that facility handle any sort of crowd of a few hundred people, without a huge chunk of them being unable to see? Add that to the fact that the car park is tiny, not good access for a crowd and the facility is used extensively both indoors and out by members of the public.

Long-term issue with it is that there does not seem to be much space to develop around the main pitch without sacrificing the nearest grass park. I see they have plans as part of their application to take over the whole facility but I just don't see how it works.

[PossilYM]

10 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said:

You keep calling yourself a groundhopper and we are done.

I keep coming across like I'm having a go at traditionalists, but is there not still a number of old junior grounds with no cover. Can't be sure of any of top of my head as it's pre-lockdowns since I was at at any.

Well I'm not ticking off a list like the many English full time hobbyists I've met.

Personally i think there's a want about somebody travelling from Lancashire to Scotland midweek to take in a non league game because you've got it on a list.

Bad enough me going along as a neutral without travelling 200 odd miles there and back on a Tuesday night.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

A year past without the season being completed. A mix of applicant clubs.

Existing members weren't keen on new clubs added to the Conferences. Just like in the East. Had to take more than met the requirements to have a workable division. 

On here it was talked up as being more than that, but it had never went to the members to have a halfway house division. 

Accepting everyone last year seems more about closing the door on that idea and work with what's there. 

You can tell its not the most popular concept with proposals like capping at 80 and no relegation for licensed clubs to Div 4 all being floated. 

Yeah like everyone appears to understand the new Div was to be a staging post but last summer they were accepted carte blanche.

Being a sceptic to me these proposals being aired are about individual clubs trying to avoid dropping into tier 10 where they might languish for a good while. Not for the good of the system.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Well I'm not ticking off a list like the many English full time hobbyists I've met.

Personally i think there's a want about somebody travelling from Lancashire to Scotland midweek to take in a non league game because you've got it on a list.

Bad enough me going along as a neutral without travelling 200 odd miles there and back on a Tuesday night.

Yeah good point. I have been to West and South games this season not to tick some feckin list but because I want to see a particular match or club.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, paul-r-cfc said:

Issue with some of these parks is going to be when a Talbot, Pollok, Clydebank etc. end up with a really important game at, for example, Donald Dewar. (I choose that as it is one I am familiar with.)

All three of those clubs are capable of bringing a couple of hundred away supporters, especially with it being within Glasgow, right next to a station, and so close to Clydebank. Can that facility handle any sort of crowd of a few hundred people, without a huge chunk of them being unable to see? Add that to the fact that the car park is tiny, not good access for a crowd and the facility is used extensively both indoors and out by members of the public.

Long-term issue with it is that there does not seem to be much space to develop around the main pitch without sacrificing the nearest grass park. I see they have plans as part of their application to take over the whole facility but I just don't see how it works.

This taking over the whole facility is probably the best and only way for a club like the Drum to develop the facility.

I have seen plans on their Twitter than Easterhouse are planning to turn Stepford into a proper footballing stadium. That is probably the best way forward for the cages, if they can go down this route.

[Guest]

Anyway think I have caught up with everyone now. I know I have answered twice on occasion and changed my tune on some. But in my defence I am new to being a spectator as have been playing and then coaching until just before lockdown. So my thoughts and views are constantly evolving as I am exposed to more of this spectating lark. Enjoying the bants though.

Boss wants her supper so better be off

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

44 minutes ago, paul-r-cfc said:

Issue with some of these parks is going to be when a Talbot, Pollok, Clydebank etc. end up with a really important game at, for example, Donald Dewar. (I choose that as it is one I am familiar with.)

All three of those clubs are capable of bringing a couple of hundred away supporters, especially with it being within Glasgow, right next to a station, and so close to Clydebank. Can that facility handle any sort of crowd of a few hundred people, without a huge chunk of them being unable to see? Add that to the fact that the car park is tiny, not good access for a crowd and the facility is used extensively both indoors and out by members of the public.

Long-term issue with it is that there does not seem to be much space to develop around the main pitch without sacrificing the nearest grass park. I see they have plans as part of their application to take over the whole facility but I just don't see how it works.

Your point is spot on, as someone who attends games with a disabled spectator its magnified so much more for them. 

[Burnieman]

4 hours ago, Spyro said:

The East learnt from the Edinburgh South mistake when they told Letham (who are a much further on than Ed South) to bolt as their ground wasn't ready and the league only had the usual assurances that it would be brought up to standard...

Apparently this Div 4 was only a temp measure and ONLY the clubs who actually had a proper ground sorted would be allowed full membership, but it seems the league bottled the aggro and just gave everyone a membership. 

I did ask at the time but was completely ignored by the people in the know

The EoS are now a lot more stringent when it comes to new applicants and their facilities, from what I can gather it loosely mirrors what an SFA licence would demand with regards to dressing room/referee facilities, perimeter fencing, toilet facilities, catering etc.   A 3g cage is getting nowhere near membership, which puzzles me when it comes to Rosyth's intended move to one.

They're also getting a bit tougher on existing members, hence why Rosyth's position is precarious, and Peebles are apparently faced with a move.  Stirling Uni Reserves must also be under a bit of pressure, their facilities are basic in the extreme.     

Not sure the EoS's view  when it comes to ground sharing, particularly on non-3g pitches eg Edinburgh South.

[Dev]

3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

There are clubs in the premier league now being bankrolled by millionaires with massive wage bills but no tangible plan for developing a decent ground etc, even if its through grant or otherwise, that in itself is nonsense. 

Totally agree with your idea. 

Theres no football pitch there, that ‘grass’ area you see in that picture was actually the field sports area for javelin etc, its not enclosed, it has no real spectator area either. 

Isn't the athletics facility to be enclosed? If the football pitch is within that area then that would deal with that?

[Dev]

2 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

I'm back bitches.

I know your just making valid points on what you experience rather than a blind attack on the cages, brother.

We would appear to be stuck with the cages facility in non league for now. My starting point in all of this was my non-concern regarding fan facilities, as generally I don't use them. 

If the cages are here to stay then there does need to be a minimum standard i.e. toilets, catering, an acceptable viewing area. It's for better men than I to determine what is acceptable in regards to location of toilets and catering, and also what constitutes an acceptable viewing area.

What the assessors need to be aware of is that not all cages are physically identical inside or immediately outside.

Please be aware though; this in no way is an admission or acceptance of defeat or being wrong.

I will continue to fight the fight where I encounter any injustice. Why is there no superhero emoji or better a 'Billy Butcher' one.

With Councils frequently doing deals to hand over responsibility for sports centres etc maybe there are some good opportunities available these days for football clubs to take on a facility and bring it up to standard over time?

Thorn Athletic has been criticised, rightly in my view, for the failure to play at Campbeltown, but they have done lots of good work at the sports centre which they have taken over. They deserve some pluses for getting things done there.