EoS Structure for 2021/22

[Saints1921]

8 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

HJ did actually have a response to this earlier this morning, but seems to have been deleted. The post was about your query & the +1 relegation issue. So not sure exactly what may have been wrong to have led to the deletion.

The bit about Inverkeithing & Crossgates was roughly about running out of free dates being Premier Division teams and AJC being played on Saturdays. No mention of the Junior Cup.

EDIT: I was just looking at the 7th August on the Fixture list. It seems like all the potential AJC teams have been left free. Sauchie, Dunbar, St Andrews, and Musselburgh are down for games which might suggest SFA Membership being gained.

Conference X having games though is weird. All those teams seem to have a game scheduled for either of the first couple of rounds of the Junior Cup though.

St Andrews United very close to getting a licence but the devil's lamps are still proving to be a devil.  We've got 223 av. lux right now but fell just short of a 0.25 min/max due to a couple of darker patches in the middle.  Hopefully realignment will do the trick because we're just out.  We're also waiting for a local company to conduct a structural engineer's report on the columns to satisfy Fife Council for the safe capacity certificate.  It's certainly not easy getting a 'basic' licence but we'll get there by next spring!  Just have to win the Alex Jack Cup instead this autumn . . . . . !!!  

[LongTimeLurker]

Has anyone heard anything concrete that indicates unambiguously that any EoS member or associate member was able to retain or reacquire ERSJFA membership for 2021-22 despite not being in the new Midlands League? My understanding of the state of play matches what is in this tweet:

 

[FairWeatherFan]

Scottish Junior Cup draw around 1pm today.

If you want some random speculation, Carnoustie Panmure have tweeted saying they're 24. Going by how the clubs are named on the SJFA website with Bo'ness United Juniors changed to Bo'ness Athletic and Annbank & Buckie Rovers in abeyance you get the following:

1. Aberdeen East End
2. Aberdeen University
3. Arbroath Victoria
4. Ardeer Thistle
5. Ardrossan Winton Rovers
6. Armadale Thistle
7. Arthurlie
8. Ashfield
9. Auchinleck Talbot
10. Banchory St Ternan
11. Banks O'Dee
12. Bathgate Thistle
13. Beith Juniors
14. Benburb
15. Blairgowrie Juniors
16. Blantyre Victoria
17. Bo'ness Athletic
18. Brechin Victoria
19. Bridge of Don Thistle
20. Broughty Athletic
21. Buchanhaven Hearts
22. Burghead Thiste
23. Carluke Rovers
24. Carnoustie Panmure

Edited July 3, 2021 by FairWeatherFan

[LongTimeLurker]

Conference X clubs are definitely in the SJC draw despite league games being scheduled for the Round 1 & 2 dates. Will the bizarre blazer politics ever end.

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Ginaro]

4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Conference X clubs are definitely in the SJC draw despite league games being scheduled for the Round 1 & 2 dates. Will the bizarre blazer politics ever end.

I mean so does the WOS fixture list.

[LongTimeLurker]

They issued their fixtures a lot sooner and had subject to change plastered all over the place from what I remember. Anyway, unlike some people on here I have no problem saying I was wrong and didn't see that one coming when events run counter to what i expect.

[LongTimeLurker]

Looks like the SJFA shifted the dates:

Edit: the now deleted graphic appeared to mention the weekend of Sep 24 as the date for the Round 1 games.

Edited July 3, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[FairWeatherFan]

They don't seem to have done the Second Round draw yet. Based on the draw numbers its looking like Bo'ness Athletic, Pumpherston, and Whitburn withdrew from the SJFA.

[LongTimeLurker]

9 minutes ago, andy25 said:

32 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

When do they intend to play the junior cup? Hopefully none of the meaningful games will be moved to accommodate this? Will they just have to play it on a Monday night or something? 

1st Round is weekend of 24-26 September.

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

It’s quite sad to see the cup continuing in this form. Cheapens it’s history imo.

Retire it and bring it in when there’s a suitable slot.

Edited July 21, 2021 by grinderbrokeyourhearts

[Malty Guy]

On 30/06/2021 at 20:15, Saints1921 said:

St Andrews United very close to getting a licence but the devil's lamps are still proving to be a devil.  We've got 223 av. lux right now but fell just short of a 0.25 min/max due to a couple of darker patches in the middle.  Hopefully realignment will do the trick because we're just out.  We're also waiting for a local company to conduct a structural engineer's report on the columns to satisfy Fife Council for the safe capacity certificate.  It's certainly not easy getting a 'basic' licence but we'll get there by next spring!  Just have to win the Alex Jack Cup instead this autumn . . . . . !!!  

I'd get another calculation carried out,,,,,,,you've clearly got enough illumination. 

The column strength is a elephant in the room issue,,,,,,, but spectator safety is paramount. 

Good luck... hope it goes ok for you

[Ginaro]

Big bump... 

Perhaps I'm missing something here (and the graphic doesn't seem to cover this scenario) but if the EOS gains a club on net from the LL - then the First Division would be made up of 2nd to 6th, plus the the best 7th place in each Conference right? Assuming of course that tier 7 is fixed at 16 clubs. 

[Yalay]

14 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Big bump... 

Perhaps I'm missing something here (and the graphic doesn't seem to cover this scenario) but if the EOS gains a club on net from the LL - then the First Division would be made up of 2nd to 6th, plus the the best 7th place in each Conference right? Assuming of course that tier 7 is fixed at 16 clubs. 

My guess is that in that situation the league would just have a 17 club First Division for 22-23. Otherwise the Second Division would have to go to 19 clubs, or the runner-up of Conference X would have to be denied promotion, both of which seem worse than the alternative.

[Dev]

The clubs decided, a year ago, to take on a structure which , in practice,  holds back all but one of last years' newcomers which included some traditionally strong former Juniors. These clubs, with a single exception, weren't former amateurs or youth sides with no real track record. Now weak clubs will remain above the bottom division and it will take a few seasons before the balance of the bottom two divisions is achieved and the strongest of the newcomers can get anywhere near the top division.

It is disappointing that the clubs who voted for the structure didn't vote for a quicker integration of these ex juniors. This is going to affect the league balance for a while longer too. Not just a single season.

Now, the bottom division will be comparatively small while higher divisions may be above the target of 16 clubs each. The clubs in the bottom division have served their initiation period (I call it punishment) and the more established clubs clubs should take the opportunity to show that It is time to finally bury the hatchet and cement the links to their old "new" friends. 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Dev

[Burnieman]

20 minutes ago, Dev said:

The clubs decided, a year ago, to take on a structure which , in practice,  holds back all but one of last years' newcomers which included some traditionally strong former Juniors. These clubs, with a single exception, weren't former amateurs or youth sides with no real track record. Now weak clubs will remain above the bottom division and it will take a few seasons before the balance of the bottom two divisions is achieved and the strongest of the newcomers can get anywhere near the top division.

It is disappointing that the clubs who voted for the structure didn't vote for a quicker integration of these ex juniors. This is going to affect the league balance for a while longer too. Not just a single season.

Now, the bottom division will be comparatively small while higher divisions may be above the target of 16 clubs each. The clubs in the bottom division have served their initiation period (I call it punishment) and the more established clubs clubs should take the opportunity to show that It is time to finally bury the hatchet and cement the links to their old "new" friends. 

 

The clubs decided to ensure first and foremost, that the clubs in the Conferences this season (tier 7), could not fall to tier 9 (Third Division) next season, the principal being that no club should fall two tiers.

Similarly, given the two previous Covid interrupted seasons, they felt it fair that all new applicants would join at a tier below the Conferences in order to give the existing Conference clubs the chance to form the new structure which they had been trying to do for the last two seasons. No different to what happened in the West, where your club play (you are a Clydebank fan aren't you?) 

It's not "punishment", I've seen you push that ridiculous line before. This applied equally to Edinburgh College as it did to any ex-Juniors.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 hours ago, Dev said:

The clubs decided, a year ago, to take on a structure which , in practice,  holds back all but one of last years' newcomers which included some traditionally strong former Juniors.

Two get promoted, with the possibility of a third.

8 hours ago, Dev said:

These clubs, with a single exception, weren't former amateurs or youth sides with no real track record.

Bo'ness Athletic and Syngenta had never completed a single season of Junior/Senior football. That's an impressive track record they've got Bo'ness going through a name change and causing some ill feeling with their groundmates. Syngenta moving between 3-4 grounds (Dunipace, Falkirk Stadium, Granagemouth, now Ochilview).

8 hours ago, Dev said:

This is going to affect the league balance for a while longer too. Not just a single season.

West Calder United are sitting clear above Bathgate Thistle in Conference X because they threw money at it after having 20 losses in 20 games. Darvel are chasing promotion to the Lowland League.  It's new kids on the bloc like Bo'ness Athletic/Syngenta/St Cadoc's/Drumchapel United that have been chasing promotion in the Conferences most of the season. We've seen plenty of clubs go from good to bad or bad to good during the interrupted Conferences. Tradition counts for nothing.

[Dev]

11 hours ago, Burnieman said:

The clubs decided to ensure first and foremost, that the clubs in the Conferences this season (tier 7), could not fall to tier 9 (Third Division) next season, the principal being that no club should fall two tiers.

Similarly, given the two previous Covid interrupted seasons, they felt it fair that all new applicants would join at a tier below the Conferences in order to give the existing Conference clubs the chance to form the new structure which they had been trying to do for the last two seasons. No different to what happened in the West, where your club play (you are a Clydebank fan aren't you?) 

It's not "punishment", I've seen you push that ridiculous line before. This applied equally to Edinburgh College as it did to any ex-Juniors.

The Punishment line is a personal opinion. Not saying that anyone needs to agree!

[Burnieman]

Just now, Dev said:

The Punishment line is a personal opinion. Not saying that anyone needs to agree!

It's not a punishment though, that suggests that the EoS Board/Members were out to get the new members. Completely untrue.

Edinburgh College were treated exactly the same as Whitburn.

My personal opinion was that the bottom club in each Conference should fall to Third/Tier 9 to ensure enough clubs were in the Third next season, but I understand the reasons why that wasn't the majority view.

[Dev]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Two get promoted, with the possibility of a third.

Bo'ness Athletic and Syngenta had never completed a single season of Junior/Senior football. That's an impressive track record they've got Bo'ness going through a name change and causing some ill feeling with their groundmates. Syngenta moving between 3-4 grounds (Dunipace, Falkirk Stadium, Granagemouth, now Ochilview).

West Calder United are sitting clear above Bathgate Thistle in Conference X because they threw money at it after having 20 losses in 20 games. Darvel are chasing promotion to the Lowland League.  It's new kids on the bloc like Bo'ness Athletic/Syngenta/St Cadoc's/Drumchapel United that have been chasing promotion in the Conferences most of the season. We've seen plenty of clubs go from good to bad or bad to good during the interrupted Conferences. Tradition counts for nothing.

Thanks for putting me right on some points.

However, there's an imbalance between divisions headed this way next season and dealing with that would be a sound opportunity to make adjustments which are inclusive of last season intake of clubs. Surely no-one is saying that they don't merit that? It would also help weaker, more established, clubs to find their true level and, hopefully avoid some of the larger defeats which have been endured.

[Burnieman]

4 minutes ago, Dev said:

Thanks for putting me right on some points.

However, there's an imbalance between divisions headed this way next season and dealing with that would be a sound opportunity to make adjustments which are inclusive of last season intake of clubs. Surely no-one is saying that they don't merit that? It would also help weaker, more established, clubs to find their true level and, hopefully avoid some of the larger defeats which have been endured.

What exactly are you suggesting happens and why are you so obsessed about this?  What about Harthill Royal who are in the same position in the WoSFL, you know, your clubs league?