Afghanistan Crisis

[Jinky67]

2 hours ago, Left Back said:

Agree with this.  Every word of it.  The problem is there was no real exit plan.  Regime change somewhere as unstable as Afghanistan where we tried to enforce Western democracy was hopeful at best and realistically naive.

Nato can’t impose it’s values on people that are at odds with them.  Nato trying to police and secure Afghanistan was never going to work long term.  It was a failure of foreign policy to attempt it which has led us to this.  

We can’t seem to accept that in general the way Muslims wish to create their society is different to how we wish ours to look.  This has been going on for centuries and will likely never change.  

I don’t particularly like it and wouldn’t want my wife to have to live like that but putting it bluntly it’s none of my business how different cultures want to live.  the exception being the example you stated.  Where we are attacked because of this we are obliged to respond.  That response should be limited to the current threat and not be an attempt to change an entire culture.

I learned a long time ago that most people from the outside looking in don’t understand the Afghan culture. Afghans don’t wan’t to be westernised, they definitely don’t want to be oppressed and brutalised by a version of Sharia Law that seems to just be intent on inflicting extreme violence and the majority of them fucking hate the Taliban.

Governments f**k everyone & most politicians are self serving arseholes but it isn’t really about why we went which should be apparent but for me it’s more about what it turned into

The majority of Afghans saw 20 years of infrastructure, education, freedom from oppression and a decrease in public executions. Most people don’t know what the Taliban was like but you were there so you should know. I remember the intel briefs prior to going out for the 1st time and was shocked and now with social media everyone else should also be prepared to be shocked because what happens next and what people are about to witness isn’t going to be pretty because if people think these fuckers have changed their spots then think again and the Afghan people know it hence the scenes we see now, this new Taliban shit doesn’t wash with me and AQ is still active in the country.

I’ve seen some desperate times but no matter how bad it’s got it’s never got that bad that sitting on the wheel arch or hanging off the wing of a C17 was a solution to it but that should evidence just how desperate your average Afghan is and just how far they are willing to go to escape the situation they have been left in.

I genuinely don’t know what the answer is but walking away and turning a blind eye isn’t either in my opinion

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Jinky67

[sophia]

6 hours ago, Left Back said:

 

I’ve served in Afghanistan, Iraq and Bosnia before that.  I’m well aware of the issues from an individual human perspective and the atrocities that occurred.  I don’t limit those issues to the people we were supposed to be helping either.  I’m obviously just a mealy mouthed coward with no clue though.

Do mean "worked" or are you a waiter?

Edited August 18, 2021 by sophia

[Aladdin]

35 minutes ago, TheBruce said:

Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11.

 

Whilst the Taliban weren't involved in the planning, Bin Laden and AQ were fairly good pals with their leadership up to that point having provided reciprocal support for years having fought together against the USSR.

The invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 was wholly legal and supported by the UN.  The lack of a credible solution to the vacuum left and an exit solution doesn't undermine the legitimate purpose of going there in the first place, albeit it has resulted in another foreign policy disaster for the US and UK.

40 minutes ago, TheBruce said:

We should all wish Afghanistan more peaceful and prosperous times, as they sorely deserve. Who knows what the Taliban will bring. They are making all the right conciliatory noises, but only time will tell.  

 

The Taliban hardly have a good track record though do they? Yes, the Saudis are just as bad in many ways but to suggest you can't express a concern about the Taliban without doing something about repressive regimes apparently allied with us is just whataboutery.

[Detournement]

We should focus on doing something about the horrible government we live under before looking at other nations. 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, TheBruce said:

Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11. Try Saudi.

 

This is the point at which I stopped reading, because there's no way anything that starts so wrong is worth the time.

Aye, it had nothing to do with Afghanistan apart from bin Laden living there from 1996 and it being the location of the Al Qaeda training camp and the Hamburg cell moving there in 98-99 to train and the Taliban knowing all about all of this and being fine with it and the Taliban giving citizenship to bin Ladin, al-Zawahiri and other Al Qaeda leaders after 9/11... yeah, nothing to do with it Afghanistan at all...

If you wanted to play revisionism it would have been way cooler to blame Germany rather than Saudi. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by GordonS

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, sophia said:

Do mean "worked" or are you a waiter?

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/18/afghanistan-kabul-airport-escape-journalist

[Detournement]

57 minutes ago, GordonS said:

 

If you wanted to play revisionism it would have been way cooler to blame Germany rather than Saudi. 

I can think of another couple of states it's even cooler to blame....

The anniversary will be good!

[Jacksgranda]

9 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/18/afghanistan-kabul-airport-escape-journalist

Scary stuff

Was listening to another journalist on Radio Ulster - Australian, I think - who got out at the weekend too (the last commercial flight, I think she said), and she said the Taliban are lying liars who tell lies and you couldn't believe a word they say as they are lying liars, and to take everything they've said to date with a shovelful of salt.

[Jacksgranda]

11 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I see the similarities between the Taliban and Boko Haram. Obviously what happens in Nigeria is done on a much smaller scale than we're seeing in Kabul. Rampaging through villages, treating women like shit and taking them as wifes etc. I wonder if we only hear so much of Afghanistan because we've never involved ourself in Nigeria...

I imagine British troops are in far more countries than we think.

[Wee-Bey]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

We should focus on doing something about the horrible government we live under before looking at other nations. 

We should send US special forces to Holyrood ???

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, Proposition Joe said:

We should send US special forces to Holyrood ???

I was thinking more of the UK government but aye why not. 

[Left Back]

9 minutes ago, Proposition Joe said:

We should send US special forces to Holyrood ???

No need.  The demonstrators that siezed Edinburgh castle yesterday could sort that out.  it's just down the road.

[Wee-Bey]

7 minutes ago, Left Back said:

No need.  The demonstrators that siezed Edinburgh castle yesterday could sort that out.  it's just down the road.

They were anti vaxxers though.

We'd just need to wait it out until one of them caught something.

[dirty dingus]

The debate is good, Bozo just making it up on the hoof. He says they knew Kabul was going to fall....so why did you and Rabb go on holiday....Our brave troops....

[ICTChris]

Quite a few posters could save some time by just posting “Hello, I’m mad” rather than the unreadable screeds they’ve served up.

Anyway, in Afghanistan, a protest in favour of the national flag in Jalalabad. Further videos show Taliban firing on the crowds.

 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

On 17/08/2021 at 07:02, ICTJohnboy said:

You know what a major crisis this is, when the Foreign Secretary has had to cut short his holiday, and do the usual media rounds with lots of hollow, mealy-mouthed words like he gives a shit has the slightest clue about what's actually happening there.

 

FTFY - not that your original was wrong, tbf.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

21 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

I agree. More of the deaths should be NATO military deaths. But that's only achievable with a substantially increased, not a decreased, presence.

Fúck me, that's some post for an erstwhile Lib Dem candidate.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

21 hours ago, Thorongil said:

There was no justification for the invasion of Afghanistan in the first place. What a waste of time and lives.

Of course there was. Begins with O, ends in il Pipeline. 

[Left Back]

12 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

The debate is good, Bozo just making it up on the hoof. He says they knew Kabul was going to fall....so why did you and Rabb go on holiday....Our brave troops....

Just switched it on to hear Starmer banging on about democracy in Afghanistan.  Clueless.