Theroadlesstravelled Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/ukraine-asks-biden-admin-armed-drones-jamming-gear-surface-air-missile-rcna20197? Why is all this plastered over the media? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Ukrainian forces attack Kherson airport for a second time, destroying Russian helicopters. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44780/ukraine-strikes-back-barrage-leaves-russian-occupied-kherson-airbase-in-flames 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 9 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said: I must say I'm struggling to comprehend in this scenario does "peacekeeping" mean "shooting the Russians"? Sending someone into stop the Russians blowing up the power stations would be desirable, however the UN could see if China wanted to do that? Likewise with a humanitarian no fly zone I still think could be looked at, the Russians respected them in Syria, perhaps it wouldn't even need enforcement until after the event. Much like all the other war crimes Putin and his troops are committing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 TFW you like free speech so much you resort to censoring news. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 6 hours ago, welshbairn said: Tony Blair. https://institute.global/tony-blair/immediate-challenge-ukraine-maximum-pressure-combined-structured-negotiation Jeremy Corbyn. It's been established you can just say any old shit you like about Corbyn so don't think anyone should be surprised tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, 101 said: TFW you like free speech so much you resort to censoring news. Free speech in Britain means if we didn't want Lawrence Fox to repeatedly shit himself in public over playschool notions of freedom we should have bought his solo album. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Blair not up in front of the Hague yet? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 12 hours ago, Thorongil said: Question: was Ukraine mistreating Russians in Eastern Ukraine prior to invasion? It's difficult to give a definite answer to a vague question. If you count shooting and bombing mistreatment, then yes, probably. There has been a wee bit of bother there recently. It's not clear that there has been officially sanctioned mistreatment (other than legitimate war fighting) on account of Russian nationality. There have been plenty of reports of pro government militia doing bad shit. There have been plenty of reports of the government doing bad shit but they usually come from Russia and are hotly debated. Ukraine (presuming you mean the state) has also been fighting Ukrainians in the Donbass. It is not only Russians that would prefer Ukraine to be more closely aligned with Russia than with the West. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 25 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkay said: Blair not up in front of the Hague yet? Thankfully not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, coprolite said: It's not clear that there has been officially sanctioned mistreatment (other than legitimate war fighting) on account of Russian nationality. Given that no one was ever convicted in connection to the killings of 44 anti Maidan activists at the Odessa Trade Union halls we can say it was officially sanctioned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, Detournement said: Given that no one was ever convicted in connection to the killings of 44 anti Maidan activists at the Odessa Trade Union halls we can say it was officially sanctioned. It's a possibility. Also possible that they just didn't give enough of a shit to investigate or prosecute. Were they Russian? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, coprolite said: It's a possibility. Also possible that they just didn't give enough of a shit to investigate or prosecute. Were they Russian? Most of them were ethnic Russian leftists. If a nation doesn't give enough of a shit to investigate or prosecute the deaths of 44 people I would say it's a failed state. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, Detournement said: Most of them were ethnic Russian leftists. If a nation doesn't give enough of a shit to investigate or prosecute the deaths of 44 people I would say it's a failed state. Is an ethnic Russian a Russian? Can the government of a failed state be held accountable for things it can't control whether it wants to or not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, coprolite said: It's a possibility. Also possible that they just didn't give enough of a shit to investigate or prosecute. Were they Russian? 300 of them attacked a pro Ukraine nationalist march with baseball bats and air guns. The nationalists fought back and chased them to the trade union hall. There was a fire, perhaps deliberate, perhaps not. P.S. Pretty balanced and detailed report here.. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/2014_Odessa_clashes Edited March 16, 2022 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 13 hours ago, Thorongil said: Question: was Ukraine mistreating Russians in Eastern Ukraine prior to invasion? It's difficult to determine exactly what was going on militarily, but there was an escalation in shelling & fighting generally ftom both sides which led to the DPR/LPR asking for Russia's assistance prior to their official recognition and the eventual invasion. Going back to 2014 though, it was the coup government's nationalistic policies which kicked off the separatists, in particular restrictions on the use of the Russian language in education and official communications. They also objected to what might politely be described as a new, alternative recollection of events in 1940s Europe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Some hopeful signs of rational compromise maybe. From the Guardian. Quote Kremlin’s spokesperson Dmitry Peskov on Wednesday said that Ukraine becoming a neutral state with a status comparable to Austria and Sweden is being discussed at talks with Kyiv and would be a “compromise”. “This is an option that is being discussed now and that can be considered as a compromise,” Kremlin spokesman Peskov told journalists, raising hopes of an end to the biggest war in Europe since World War Two. Russia’s chief negotiator in the talks with Ukraine Vladimir Medinsky said that the Austrian and Swedish models would mean Ukraine will be able to keep its army but won’t be allowed to host foreign bases or troops. Earlier in the day, Russia’s foreign minister Sergei Lavrov told the Russian RBC news site that some parts of a possible peace deal with Ukraine were close to being agreed after Kyiv reportedly agreed to discuss neutrality “Neutral status is now being seriously discussed along, of course, with security guarantees,” Lavrov said. Yesterday Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy acknowledged that Ukraine will not become a Nato member, which will be seen as a significant concession towards Russia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorongil Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 31 minutes ago, Zetterlund said: It's difficult to determine exactly what was going on militarily, but there was an escalation in shelling & fighting generally ftom both sides which led to the DPR/LPR asking for Russia's assistance prior to their official recognition and the eventual invasion. Going back to 2014 though, it was the coup government's nationalistic policies which kicked off the separatists, in particular restrictions on the use of the Russian language in education and official communications. They also objected to what might politely be described as a new, alternative recollection of events in 1940s Europe. Interesting. So it’s now just poor timid innocent Ukraine and mad Putin invading them without any provocation. I did smell a bit of a rat with the entirely un-nuanced media coverage of events. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) Tony Blair was talking about recognition of Crimea and the East as no longer part of Ukraine so that seems to be a given now. Unless Russia are offered sanctions relief they will probably press onto Odessa and Dnipro. Blair seems to lightly hint that there is room to negotiate on this by mentioning the immediate consequences of sanctions but not talking at all about permanent consequences. It's worth bearing in mind that he is probably as close to Saudi Arabia and Israel as he is to the USA these days. There is some ominous stuff in there about a defined western response to the African population explosion and the division of the Middle East in friends and enemies. Funnily he mentions that communist China is overtaking the West because it's less bureaucratic. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/tony-blair-west-has-fortnight-to-help-end-war-in-ukraine The full thing https://institute.global/tony-blair/immediate-challenge-ukraine-maximum-pressure-combined-structured-negotiation Edited March 16, 2022 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 If Tony Blair wants to be helpful in this case can we not send him to to halt the assault on Kyiv. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, 101 said: If Tony Blair wants to be helpful in this case can we not send him to to halt the assault on Kyiv. We could trade him for the Mariupol mayor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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