ICTChris Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Can’t believe the highly trained Russian army would do something like this. As stated above, I’m sure there will be a diplomatic solution. Wouldn’t surprise me if Poland does something like moves troops to its border or the like. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Tom and an expert US nuclear policy and lectured at the Naval academy on it. He is one of those people who are worth following during these sort of events. Certain more worthwhile than reading my long winded pish. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) OK, so here is Artile 5 (and the related Article 6): Article 5 “The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.” Article 6 “For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack: on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer; on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.” Well, that’s clearly an attack on a NATO country, it clearly occurred within the sphere defined within Article 6. Now any NATO country can elect to do pretty much whatever it wishes in response. To be honest, this COULD, just could, be the genesis of a no fly zone over Ukraine, and NATO aircraft actively intercepting missiles and aircraft. Russia may have really stepped on 8ts duck with golf spikes on this time. Edited November 15, 2022 by TxRover 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 1 minute ago, dorlomin said: an expert US nuclear policy We'll sort it out on here without his interference. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 The missiles apparently hit a grain silo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Can’t believe the highly trained Russian army would do something like this. As stated above, I’m sure there will be a diplomatic solution. Wouldn’t surprise me if Poland does something like moves troops to its border or the like. The Russian quality control made this pretty much inevitable once they started flying missiles on deceptive courses and into the far west in Ukraine. Surprised it took this long, but also expect that A NATO AWACS was probably airborne and tracked the entire missile flight, so we’ll already know who launched the ones that hit Poland. There is a chance they offer to ignore this if the responsible parties are turned over for trial and the Russians stop lobbing missiles, but I suspect the Russians won’t play ball. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Diego De la Vega Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Chat now it may be a Ukrainian missile that malfunctioned 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 11 minutes ago, TxRover said: The Russian quality control made this pretty much inevitable You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 (edited) Some people are saying it looks like an S-300. These are air defence missiles. Ukraine does use them like that. But Russia also uses them as ground attack missiles. So at the moment, open minds and calm heads. This may be a Ukrainian air defence missile going astray or it may be a Russian missile. Edited November 15, 2022 by dorlomin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, Don Diego De la Vega said: Chat now it may be a Ukrainian missile that malfunctioned Senior U.S. a intelligence official specifically said “Russian missiles”…just saying, I bet they were fully tracked. 2 minutes ago, dorlomin said: Some people are saying it looks like an S-300. These are air defence missiles. Ukraine does use them like that. But Russia also uses them as ground attack missiles. So at the moment, open minds and calm heads. Range is too short for a Russian S-300 missile. Looking at the crater, it looks a wee bit big for the S-300, but a little small for a Kalibr missile…a lot depends on where it explodes relative to the ground and structures. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 I wonder if this conflict ends with NATO saying youv now given us a reason. Get to fucknout of Ukraine or we will respond under A5 and Pearl Harbour the black sea fleet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deegee Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 I’ve been saying since this whole shit- show started in February that former Soviet (occupied) countries like Poland and the Czechs etc will be itching to have a nibble at the Russians. Hopefully I’m wrong but the US will need to keep a lid on the Poles going balls deep and getting involved, or else we probably are looking at WW3, rather than this de facto war where we are pushing back via the Ukrainian army. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duszek Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, TxRover said: Looking at the crater, it looks a wee bit big for the S-300, but a little small for a Kalibr missile. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: I wonder if this conflict ends with NATO saying youv now given us a reason. Get to fucknout of Ukraine or we will respond under A5 and Pearl Harbour the black sea fleet Lob a few tomahawks through the windows of all the military headquarters in occupied Ukraine? Maybe a couple “go rogue” and just happen to hit an HQ just inside Russia? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 WW3 will solve the world's financial problems. Maybe not a bad thing now we officially have over 8 billion on the planet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deegee Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: I wonder if this conflict ends with NATO saying youv now given us a reason. Get to fucknout of Ukraine or we will respond under A5 and Pearl Harbour the black sea fleet You’d think, since the heads of CIA and the Russian security services met this week (and probably have an open line somewhere via some embassy officials), that Moscow have been very clearly told that every single piece of Russian military hardware has a target on it and will be wiped out if there are any more shenanigans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirdcal Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Wonder if it launched from Belarus. Be something else if Poland threatened article 5 unless all Russian army, artillery etc is removed from Belarus, be calling a major bluff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Just now, Highlandmagar said: WW3 will solve the world's financial problems. Maybe not a bad thing now we officially have over 8 billion on the planet. How sure are we that a measured NATO strike in response to this leads to WW3 at this point though? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, deegee said: I’ve been saying since this whole shit- show started in February that former Soviet (occupied) countries like Poland and the Czechs etc will be itching to have a nibble at the Russians. Hopefully I’m wrong but the US will need to keep a lid on the Poles going balls deep and getting involved, or else we probably are looking at WW3, rather than this de facto war where we are pushing back via the Ukrainian army. Honestly, the Polish Army could slice through to Moscow no problem right now, but then Putin would use nukes. Belarus would stand aside. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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