Squad Injuries Ahead of Ukraine Match

[craigkillie]

Where has it been confirmed? Nobody official has said anything as far as I can tell.

[Donathan]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Where has it been confirmed? Nobody official has said anything as far as I can tell.

Darijo Srna (Shakhtar Donetsk DOF) said that Ceferin from UEFA has confirmed it to him. 

[Ken Deans]

Totally different scenario if postponed for months. Except Ukraine will be in the same position then as now. I have a clear position on Putin and his war but no for this thread. Play the game and show solidarity now

[Donathan]

18 minutes ago, Ken Deans said:

Totally different scenario if postponed for months. Except Ukraine will be in the same position then as now. I have a clear position on Putin and his war but no for this thread. Play the game and show solidarity now

I sincerely hope that UEFA are only offering this postponement on the strict condition that it’s a one-off and they must fulfil the fixture in June or forfeit it. 

[craigkillie]

Darijo Srna (Shakhtar Donetsk DOF) said that Ceferin from UEFA has confirmed it to him. 

It'll be confirmed once it's confirmed by the SFA, Ukrainian FA, UEFA or FIFA, not indirectly via a club director of football.

[KingRocketman II]

41 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I sincerely hope that UEFA are only offering this postponement on the strict condition that it’s a one-off and they must fulfil the fixture in June or forfeit it. 

I agree - the Ukrainians really need to sort out their priorities and stop stringing us along. 

[Donathan]

9 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

I agree - the Ukrainians really need to sort out their priorities and stop stringing us along. 

Tad harsh. The Ukrainians are well within their rights to ask for a postponement.

 

Issue is that there’s no wiggle room in the calendar for any further postponements. If the situation is still going on come June then they should be obliged to cobble together whatever team they can or face a 3-0 forfeit. 

[KingRocketman II]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

Tad harsh. The Ukrainians are well within their rights to ask for a postponement.

 

Issue is that there’s no wiggle room in the calendar for any further postponements. If the situation is still going on come June then they should be obliged to cobble together whatever team they can or face a 3-0 forfeit. 

I should clarify I was being sarcastic. There is no way the Ukrainians should be asked to forfeit at any point. I think you need to look at the situation outside the bubble of fixture congestion. 

[Donathan]

4 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

I should clarify I was being sarcastic. There is no way the Ukrainians should be asked to forfeit at any point. I think you need to look at the situation outside the bubble of fixture congestion. 

What’s your solution if they still can’t play in June then? 

[KingRocketman II]

 

2 minutes ago, Donathan said:

What’s your solution if they still can’t play in June then? 

their country is being invaded by a hostile force.  If they are over-run, as is likely, then the situation needs to be assessed at that point. A possibility is to re-do the whole play-off draw with Russians now banned and Ukraine unable to fulfil fixtures - but that doesn't necessarily mean Ukraine forfeiting any qualification hope. 

Fixture congestion is a minor issue - if play-offs are needed at any point in the future then it just needs the the relevant football associations  to agree on dates. There are a number of options and contingencies that can be considered.

For how honouring a date for a Winter WC play-off is not a priority and no reasonably minded person should consider it one. 

[Ken Deans]

Every effort must be made to accommodate this game

[Donathan]

41 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

 

their country is being invaded by a hostile force.  If they are over-run, as is likely, then the situation needs to be assessed at that point. A possibility is to re-do the whole play-off draw with Russians now banned and Ukraine unable to fulfil fixtures - but that doesn't necessarily mean Ukraine forfeiting any qualification hope. 

Fixture congestion is a minor issue - if play-offs are needed at any point in the future then it just needs the the relevant football associations  to agree on dates. There are a number of options and contingencies that can be considered.

For how honouring a date for a Winter WC play-off is not a priority and no reasonably minded person should consider it one. 

Those agreed dates would have to fall into one of the two remaining international windows though. The first two weeks in June, or the last week of September.

 

Anything outwith those dates is a non-starter as the clubs would refuse to release players. At best you might get the SFA and Ukrainian FA agreeing to pause league football for a week so that domestic players are available, but we’d be missing all of our England based players and they’d be missing a large chunk of their squad.
 

June is difficult because of UNL commitments but we can likely shift those back to accommodate that. September is probably IMPOSSIBLE because of UNL commitments. 

[KingRocketman II]

6 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Those agreed dates would have to fall into one of the two remaining international windows though. The first two weeks in June, or the last week of September.

 

Anything outwith those dates is a non-starter as the clubs would refuse to release players. At best you might get the SFA and Ukrainian FA agreeing to pause league football for a week so that domestic players are available, but we’d be missing all of our England based players and they’d be missing a large chunk of their squad.
 

June is difficult because of UNL commitments but we can likely shift those back to accommodate that. September is probably IMPOSSIBLE because of UNL commitments. 

if you approach it as a business as usual situation as you seem to be bizarrely doing then yes, am sure it is impossible.

However if you approach it from the perspective that two European countries are at war resulting in thousands of deaths and the largest mass migration of people since WW2, then I consider exceptional arrangements would be made to accommodate additional international fixtures. 

[Donathan]

10 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

if you approach it as a business as usual situation as you seem to be bizarrely doing then yes, am sure it is impossible.

However if you approach it from the perspective that two European countries are at war resulting in thousands of deaths and the largest mass migration of people since WW2, then I consider exceptional arrangements would be made to accommodate additional international fixtures. 

What “exceptional arrangements” are you talking about?

 

Remember that the game MUST be played by November (they’re not delaying the whole tournament just to give a middling European nation a fair chance to qualify) and they’re not playing it on a random date outwith the international calendar. To do so, the non Scotland based players would not be released by their clubs and we’d be looking at a squad without Robertson, Tierney, McGinn, Jack Hendry, Dykes, Adams, Gilmour, McTominay, Patterson, Hanley, Christie, Armstrong, McLean, Cooper, Brown, McKenna and Ryan Fraser. 

 

I’ll be very generous and suggest that there are four windows where these playoffs could take place:

 

- March 2022 (Appears to be a non-starter as Ukraine are unable to fulfil)

 

- June 2022 (Plan B, which would involve shifting back some UNL fixtures. Not ideal but doable)

 

- September 2022 (Plan C. Not sure what we are supposed to do about the nations league if this happens)

 

- November 2022 (Technically you could play the SF on Wednesday 16th November and the final on Saturday 19th, right before the finals start. If this happened you’d probably need FIFA to rig the draw to put the winners in group G or H to give a few days rest) 

 

Remember it’s not just the playoffs that need played by November, it’s the nations league group stage too. This must be completed by the end of this year because next year is taken up with Euro 2024 qualifying. So Scotland, Ukraine, Wales and Austria have 7 or 8 competitive matches to arrange before the World Cup starts (8 for the two who make the playoff final)

 

If you assume March is a write off at this point you have four slots in June, three in September and maybe one in November right before the World Cup. That tells me there is no further wriggle room at all after this initial postponement and if you think there is, I’d like you to outline that with some examples. 

[KingRocketman II]

2 hours ago, Donathan said:

What “exceptional arrangements” are you talking about?

 

Remember that the game MUST be played by November (they’re not delaying the whole tournament just to give a middling European nation a fair chance to qualify) and they’re not playing it on a random date outwith the international calendar. To do so, the non Scotland based players would not be released by their clubs and we’d be looking at a squad without Robertson, Tierney, McGinn, Jack Hendry, Dykes, Adams, Gilmour, McTominay, Patterson, Hanley, Christie, Armstrong, McLean, Cooper, Brown, McKenna and Ryan Fraser. 

 

I’ll be very generous and suggest that there are four windows where these playoffs could take place:

 

- March 2022 (Appears to be a non-starter as Ukraine are unable to fulfil)

 

- June 2022 (Plan B, which would involve shifting back some UNL fixtures. Not ideal but doable)

 

- September 2022 (Plan C. Not sure what we are supposed to do about the nations league if this happens)

 

- November 2022 (Technically you could play the SF on Wednesday 16th November and the final on Saturday 19th, right before the finals start. If this happened you’d probably need FIFA to rig the draw to put the winners in group G or H to give a few days rest) 

 

Remember it’s not just the playoffs that need played by November, it’s the nations league group stage too. This must be completed by the end of this year because next year is taken up with Euro 2024 qualifying. So Scotland, Ukraine, Wales and Austria have 7 or 8 competitive matches to arrange before the World Cup starts (8 for the two who make the playoff final)

 

If you assume March is a write off at this point you have four slots in June, three in September and maybe one in November right before the World Cup. That tells me there is no further wriggle room at all after this initial postponement and if you think there is, I’d like you to outline that with some examples. 

I can see we are both miles apart in terms of how we assess the enormity of what is happening in Ukraine (which is surprising given that all of Europe was potentially facing a nuclear fall out last week). Maybe best to leave it there rather than go round in circles about fulfilling fixtures in the international calendar. 

[Donathan]

57 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

I can see we are both miles apart in terms of how we assess the enormity of what is happening in Ukraine (which is surprising given that all of Europe was potentially facing a nuclear fall out last week). Maybe best to leave it there rather than go round in circles about fulfilling fixtures in the international calendar. 

I have no doubts that the current situation is very serious but this is not like the covid pandemic which caused a near shutdown of worldwide football for the best part of six months in 2020, a year’s delay to the euros themselves and the playoffs and nations league having to be crammed into international windows in the second half of 2020.

 

This is a bespoke issue that leaves two of UEFA’s 55 members unable to fulfil fixtures (one because they are currently under invasion, the other because they’ve been kicked out for doing said invasion)

 

Now of course if the situation escalates to a situation where more countries become directly involved then all bets are off with regards to the final tournament. But the current base scenario of most commentators is that Russia will continue its invasion for months if not years, NATO will help Ukraine but will not become directly involved, and life for most of us who don’t live in that particular part of Eastern Europe will remain pretty normal. You cannot draw the covid parallel because a global pandemic affects every country in the world directly. This is a regional issue.

 

So, two things are very clear:

 

- The finals are absolutely not getting postponed unless the situation escalates significantly.

 

- Teams aren’t going to play qualifiers outside of the usual international windows in March/June/September/November.

Constrained by these two facts, Ukraine are either going to need to find some way to fulfil the fixture, or they’re going to need to withdraw. 
 

I suppose the absolute last gasp scenario would be to leave the nations league fixtures as is, shunt the playoffs all the way back to the Wednesday and Saturday right before the finals, and then rig the draw so that the playoff winner is in group H. If Ukraine can’t fulfil by then, they won’t be able to fulfil the finals either so they might as well withdraw at that point. 

[Lyle Lanley]

Nisbet out for 7-9 months. 

[accies1874]

Hanley's got Covid so could be a doubt for the first friendly, Dykes is still out and Patterson has failed to make the Everton bench again.

[Donathan]

3 hours ago, accies1874 said:

Hanley's got Covid so could be a doubt for the first friendly, Dykes is still out and Patterson has failed to make the Everton bench again.

Hanley should be fine given that the isolation period is shorter now, though I won’t be shocked if we just leave him out for a rest anyway 

[accies1874]

Hanley should be fine given that the isolation period is shorter now, though I won’t be shocked if we just leave him out for a rest anyway 

What's the deal with isolation in England, and will that change if he has to travel up here?