TIER ONE COLTS IN LOWLAND LEAGUE

[MAC THE KNIFE]

X

 

TAKEN FROM A POST ON A PRIVATE SHIRE THREAD

 

WHAT IS THE THE GRUESOMESOME TWO SOME AVERAGE ATTENDANCE WITHOUT THE RANGERS/CELTIC DERBY  ?

 

Average LL home attendance of 150 this season

 

 

TAKEN FRO

[bravehearts dad]

Mac The Knife, Do you think your club will change their mind from last season of the gruesome twosome being admitted to the LL, or give them the red card?

C’mon The Rose

[FairWeatherFan]

8 hours ago, MAC THE KNIFE said:

X

 

TAKEN FROM A POST ON A PRIVATE SHIRE THREAD

 

WHAT IS THE THE GRUESOMESOME TWO SOME AVERAGE ATTENDANCE WITHOUT THE RANGERS/CELTIC DERBY  ?

 

Average LL home attendance of 150 this season

 

 

TAKEN FRO

Not sure how 150 for the B teams gets arrived at going by the numbers? The Colts from Cumbernauld get 150 though

20 minutes ago, bravehearts dad said:

Mac The Knife, Do you think your club will change their mind from last season of the gruesome twosome being admitted to the LL, or give them the red card?

C’mon The Rose

https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/sport/football/east-stirlingshire-vote-in-favour-of-celtic-and-rangers-joining-lowland-league-for-one-season-only-3232280

What was said last year.

Quote

"We voted to support the proposal,” he confirmed.

 

"A lot of people seem to think this was done purely for money but given it's only £50,00 to the league, that isn't automatically given to the clubs and even if it was it would be little over £3000 each, although that’s not to be scoffed at it won't change anyone’s season and is pretty negligible in the grand schemes of things.

 

"Given it's only for one year, and we've had that confirmed, the rule of the league will be changed and extending beyond one season would have to go to another vote.

"It seemed the majority of clubs would not be keen on that based on last night’s meeting, at this moment in time we would not vote to extend it beyond this season.”

"From our point of view this won't be detrimental to any tier six teams, as none were going to be promoted after last season anyway, so they are not taking a place form any other team.”

 

Fleming added that he believes having the two teams in the division will bring new eyes to the Lowland League as well as increased attention in media outlets, something that can only be seen as a positive.

"We felt it was a great way, rightly or wrongly, to highlight the league to new people and that hopefully gives us something to build on in the future after Rangers and Celtic have gone off to wherever they go at the end of the season.”

Certainly hasn't felt like new people have discovered the league to hang around and support their local club. Simply some clubs benefitting from OF fans having a novelty day out.

[Pyramid Watcher]

I can’t wait to see the flurry of statements coming out from clubs tomorrow night who declare that they voted against it, yet they were all silent on the relegation/promotion issue.

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, Pyramid Watcher said:

I can’t wait to see the flurry of statements coming out from clubs tomorrow night who declare that they voted against it, yet they were all silent on the relegation/promotion issue.

That feels rather optimistic. Seems like only Bonnyrigg have been rather active on the issue. Everyone else has been silent unless i've missed something. Even if it's just the same 5 that vote against it. I don't remember a ton of statements.

More likely to see a lot of statements justifying the decision to keep them. How it's been a tremendous success with just a few issues to sort out. That the SPFL have failed to provide an alternative so what are they supposed to do?

Seems like the new sponsor is supportive even though they didn't see the value until sponsoring late into the season.

[MAC THE KNIFE]

SHIRE BOARD NEVER ASKED THE FANS

[Dundee Hibernian]

3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/sport/football/east-stirlingshire-vote-in-favour-of-celtic-and-rangers-joining-lowland-league-for-one-season-only-3232280

What was said last year.

12 minutes ago, MAC THE KNIFE said:

SHIRE BOARD NEVER ASKED THE FANS

I think Derek Ure was blowing smoke up the arse of the idea that B sides play in the league next season again, recently.

[Pyramid Watcher]

3 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

I think Derek Ure was blowing smoke up the arse of the idea that B sides play in the league next season again, recently.

I believe his son plays for Celtic B

[Dundee Hibernian]

25 minutes ago, Pyramid Watcher said:

I believe his son plays for Celtic B

Yes, another potential Scotland star of the future.

See the pair of them started with 18 non Scots in their line ups today.

[boheesian]

Bo’ness did a survey at Wednesday nights match and from what I hear it was a no to them in the LL.

Why don’t they relegate 41 & 42, promote the champions of the LL & HL to tier 4. Then the champions of EOSL & WOSL move up to the LL.

incentives all round Div. 2 strugglers remove their parachute and the other League winners get the rewards their results deserve. Wow it then becomes a pyramid.

is it that not simple..

[AlansHotBath]

1 hour ago, boheesian said:

Bo’ness did a survey at Wednesday nights match and from what I hear it was a no to them in the LL.

Why don’t they relegate 41 & 42, promote the champions of the LL & HL to tier 4. Then the champions of EOSL & WOSL move up to the LL.

incentives all round Div. 2 strugglers remove their parachute and the other League winners get the rewards their results deserve. Wow it then becomes a pyramid.

is it that not simple..

I feel like most fans would be against them if it was put to a vote. From memory the only club that consulted fans and then voted in favour because of that was Caledonian Braves, and they don't really have a 'traditional' fanbase in the way most other clubs in the league do. 

There's nothing wrong with what you have proposed, the issue is getting everyone - in a variety of leagues - to agree when, as we've seen again with the recent LL vote, self-interest is going to come out on top. Can't even get teams agreeing on increased relegation as a concept, never mind the specific numbers involved at every level.

TBH I can't really blame the people that run the clubs too much for that, they should be doing what is best for their club and if they believe it's less movement between the leagues then that is their view. 

In any case, I hope Shire vote against the Colts returning, but I'm not sure how it would go. Personally I'd like to hear what they view as being the positives from having them in the league this season that would prompt someone to vote in favour again. In terms of attendances being boosted, where that is true (it's difficult to gauge), I would not be surprised to see the numbers dwindling again once the novelty wears off. 

[Pyramid Watcher]

1 hour ago, boheesian said:

Bo’ness did a survey at Wednesday nights match and from what I hear it was a no to them in the LL.

Why don’t they relegate 41 & 42, promote the champions of the LL & HL to tier 4. Then the champions of EOSL & WOSL move up to the LL.

incentives all round Div. 2 strugglers remove their parachute and the other League winners get the rewards their results deserve. Wow it then becomes a pyramid.

is it that not simple..

The SPFL clubs would never vote for that.

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, AlansHotBath said:

I feel like most fans would be against them if it was put to a vote. From memory the only club that consulted fans and then voted in favour because of that was Caledonian Braves, and they don't really have a 'traditional' fanbase in the way most other clubs in the league do.

Berwick Rangers voted for it. There were 3 choices though which split the vote, but yes still got a little over 50%.

[boheesian]

3 minutes ago, AlansHotBath said:

I feel like most fans would be against them if it was put to a vote. From memory the only club that consulted fans and then voted in favour because of that was Caledonian Braves, and they don't really have a 'traditional' fanbase in the way most other clubs in the league do. 

There's nothing wrong with what you have proposed, the issue is getting everyone - in a variety of leagues - to agree when, as we've seen again with the recent LL vote, self-interest is going to come out on top. Can't even get teams agreeing on increased relegation as a concept, never mind the specific numbers involved at every level.

TBH I can't really blame the people that run the clubs too much for that, they should be doing what is best for their club and if they believe it's less movement between the leagues then that is their view. 

In any case, I hope Shire vote against the Colts returning, but I'm not sure how it would go. Personally I'd like to hear what they view as being the positives from having them in the league this season that would prompt someone to vote in favour again. In terms of attendances being boosted, where that is true (it's difficult to gauge), I would not be surprised to see the numbers dwindling again once the novelty wears off. 

I agree the fear factor of dropping down a division activates the self preservation button but we need to move on.

It would interesting to see how Brechins attendance figures compare with last season or even your own over that period when dropping down. Sometimes when teams start winning in a lower league attendances improve.

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, boheesian said:

I agree the fear factor of dropping down a division activates the self preservation button but we need to move on.

It would interesting to see how Brechins attendance figures compare with last season or even your own over that period when dropping down. Sometimes when teams start winning in a lower league attendances improve.

Not sure what Brechin's attendances have been like this season but Shire were getting between 300-350 average in their last few seasons the SPFL and are now down to less than half of that. Berwick had an average of 477 in their last L2 season and are at below 400 this year. Covid could still well be playing a part of that.

Generally, yes, winning more games at a level below will draw more home fans than losing more at a level above but in reality, the LL is still packed with clubs who'll bring next to no away fans. Even at L2, away crowds will make a significant difference in average crowds for a club like Shire.

Until the LL becomes a league genuinely filled with the biggest and best clubs, south of the Tay, outside the SPFL, it's not going to be an attractive prospect for clubs currently in the SPFL.

[Pyramid Watcher]

46 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Not sure what Brechin's attendances have been like this season but Shire were getting between 300-350 average in their last few seasons the SPFL and are now down to less than half of that. Berwick had an average of 477 in their last L2 season and are at below 400 this year. Covid could still well be playing a part of that.

Generally, yes, winning more games at a level below will draw more home fans than losing more at a level above but in reality, the LL is still packed with clubs who'll bring next to no away fans. Even at L2, away crowds will make a significant difference in average crowds for a club like Shire.

Until the LL becomes a league genuinely filled with the biggest and best clubs, south of the Tay, outside the SPFL, it's not going to be an attractive prospect for clubs currently in the SPFL.

Most L2 clubs have next to no away support to speak of so I’m not sure they are that different from the LL.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Pyramid Watcher

[Gordon EF]

40 minutes ago, Pyramid Watcher said:

Most L2 clubs have next to no away support to speak of so I’m not sure they are that different from the LL.

The average away crowd in L2 will be significantly higher than the average away crowd in the LL. Well over half the clubs in the LL have an average attendance below 200. No club in L2  has an average attendance that low.

[zenon]

7 hours ago, boheesian said:

Bo’ness did a survey at Wednesday nights match and from what I hear it was a no to them in the LL.

Why don’t they relegate 41 & 42, promote the champions of the LL & HL to tier 4. Then the champions of EOSL & WOSL move up to the LL.

incentives all round Div. 2 strugglers remove their parachute and the other League winners get the rewards their results deserve. Wow it then becomes a pyramid.

is it that not simple..

But you need the excitement of the play-offs to keep fans interested. 

I would go club 42 automatically down, winners of HL and LL play off for automatic promotion, losers then play off with Club 41. 

Bottom of LL automatically down, EOS and WOSL play off for automatic promotion, losers then play off with second bottom of LL.

[boheesian]

57 minutes ago, zenon said:

But you need the excitement of the play-offs to keep fans interested. 

I would go club 42 automatically down, winners of HL and LL play off for automatic promotion, losers then play off with Club 41. 

Bottom of LL automatically down, EOS and WOSL play off for automatic promotion, losers then play off with second bottom of LL.

All valid points. However, the supporters of the these clubs in their relevant positions have all got a nail biting end to the season. Just my thoughts.

[craigkillie]

9 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Not sure what Brechin's attendances have been like this season but Shire were getting between 300-350 average in their last few seasons the SPFL and are now down to less than half of that. Berwick had an average of 477 in their last L2 season and are at below 400 this year. Covid could still well be playing a part of that.
Generally, yes, winning more games at a level below will draw more home fans than losing more at a level above but in reality, the LL is still packed with clubs who'll bring next to no away fans. Even at L2, away crowds will make a significant difference in average crowds for a club like Shire.
Until the LL becomes a league genuinely filled with the biggest and best clubs, south of the Tay, outside the SPFL, it's not going to be an attractive prospect for clubs currently in the SPFL.

Fraserburgh relegating Cowdenbeath would be an excellent outcome in that respect, it would get rid of two Tier 6/7 level clubs from the Lowland in one go.

Edited April 4, 2022 by craigkillie