Can we ever imagine a Scotland without the Old Firm?

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

See all this talk about the Old Firm hoovering up trophies?

This is the Rangers that haven't won a domestic cup in their current guise aye?

Aye, but that's clearly changing.  The duopoly is back in full flow.  They're both miles clear at the top of the league again and Rangers are likely to win the Cup this time.

 

[bennett]

38 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Aye, but that's clearly changing.  The duopoly is back in full flow.  They're both miles clear at the top of the league again and Rangers are likely to win the Cup this time.

 

 

A tough ask to get past Leipzig, I wish I had your confidence. 

[ol1vercloff]

14 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Don't be so bloody stupid.  Is that really the best you can do?

Of course that won't be the case.  They will however start with resources that are a bit more equal than is currently the case.

It's utterly moronic to suggest that someone highlighting the gross Imbalance we currently have, must be instead insisting everything has to be completely equal.  

Rub your earlobes and say the word 'woosah'.  You should feel a bit calmer!

Not to worry, I'm sure Queens will come back up again next season and you'll be mellow yellow again 

[Monkey Tennis]

6 minutes ago, ol1vercloff said:

Rub your earlobes and say the word 'woosah'.  You should feel a bit calmer!

Not to worry, I'm sure Queens will come back up again next season and you'll be mellow yellow again 

Nothing to do with Queens.  I'm always this raging about the OF.

It's bad enough when their own fans, in and outside of the media, trot out received, self-serving rubbish that survives no scrutiny.

When apparent diddy team fans come out with it as well though, it induces genuine seethe.  

[Guest]

I haven't read this thread, but I can imagine most folk will think that the SPL would improve without the Old Firm. It wouldn't. A lot of Scottish media attention would be redirected to whichever league the Old Firm joined, sponsorship money would evaporate. the current TV deal has been undersold and probably the money generated from that would remain about the same, given the (presumably) more competitive league...but the reality is that broadcasters also play high value on the Old Firm.

Overall, I think the league would degenerate and become like the League of Ireland, eventually.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Smith said:

I haven't read this thread, but I can imagine most folk will think that the SPL would improve without the Old Firm. It wouldn't. A lot of Scottish media attention would be redirected to whichever league the Old Firm joined, sponsorship money would evaporate. the current TV deal has been undersold and probably the money generated from that would remain about the same, given the (presumably) more competitive league...but the reality is that broadcasters also play high value on the Old Firm.

Overall, I think the league would degenerate and become like the League of Ireland, eventually.

Bingo!

[Dons_1988]

The league of Ireland must wonder what it’s done to be brought up in this debate over and over again. 

[wastecoatwilly]

12 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The duopoly is back in full flow.

Pish monkey,Celtic have won about 20 trophies since 2012 sevco have won one plus you can't say it hasn't been good for other clubs so getting rid of both isn't the answer.

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Pish monkey,Celtic have won about 20 trophies since 2012 sevco have won one plus you can't say it hasn't been good for other clubs so getting rid of both isn't the answer.

I know I shouldn't do this, I really do.  So sorry.

What exactly can't I say hasn't been good for clubs though?  Surely not the duopoly?

 

[Monkey Tennis]

10 hours ago, Mr. Smith said:

I haven't read this thread, but I can imagine most folk will think that the SPL would improve without the Old Firm. It wouldn't. A lot of Scottish media attention would be redirected to whichever league the Old Firm joined, sponsorship money would evaporate. the current TV deal has been undersold and probably the money generated from that would remain about the same, given the (presumably) more competitive league...but the reality is that broadcasters also play high value on the Old Firm.

Overall, I think the league would degenerate and become like the League of Ireland, eventually.

Hey, we've got another one.

What are the chances?

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I know I shouldn't do this, I really do.  So sorry.

What exactly can't I say hasn't been good for clubs though?  Surely not the duopoly?

 

In the last ten years the duopoly hasn't existed and still doesn't plus clubs enjoyed winning trophies in those years.
Sevco could still become a gretna, it certainly isn't in full flow like you said.

[VincentGuerin]

22 hours ago, Mr. Smith said:

Overall, I think the league would degenerate and become like the League of Ireland, eventually.

Always enjoy this being brought up. It's just fucking daft.

The average gate in LoI is just over 2,000.

Even taking the OF out of the equation, it's not even close. The highest average is 6,000 in LoI with every other club getting 1,800 - 3,300.

I'm not sure Hearts' 16,000+, Hibs' 15,000+, Aberdeen's 11,000+, or even Dundee United's 7,000+ are about to plummet to that level.

The lowest average crowd in the SPFL Premiership (Ross County) would be the second-highest average in LoI. Motherwell would be a really big club in LoI.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

22 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Always enjoy this being brought up. It's just fucking daft.

The average gate in LoI is just over 2,000.

Even taking the OF out of the equation, it's not even close. The highest average is 6,000 in LoI with every other club getting 1,800 - 3,300.

I'm not sure Hearts' 16,000+, Hibs' 15,000+, Aberdeen's 11,000+, or even Dundee United's 7,000+ are about to plummet to that level.

The lowest average crowd in the SPFL Premiership (Ross County) would be the second-highest average in LoI. Motherwell would be a really big club in LoI.

 

Spot on.

The League of Ireland rubbish was thoroughly debunked during the banter years, when it got raised by witless clowns.

 

It's laughable.  On one hand here, we're being told that our bigger remaining clubs would expand with success to become monsters comparable to our current ones, thus introducing a vast new gulf.  On the other, we're being told they'd wither away to have gates that are a tiny fraction of what they now get.

Life without the OF would be lovely.  Those arguing otherwise are grasping for the flimsiest of straws.

[Dons_1988]

In fairness I think the league of Ireland stuff is less about attendances and more about tv money and European coefficients. Which, let’s be honest, would drop off if they disappeared. I think it’s fair to say that. Not to say that there would be no tv deal or no prospect of europe, just that the value would reduce. Scottish football would simply just have to cut its cloth accordingly. 

The question is that what we want from a domestic league? People seem to have been fooled into thinking the value of the tv deal and what round we enter Europe is the primary aim of a domestic league. 

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

In fairness I think the league of Ireland stuff is less about attendances and more about tv money and European coefficients. Which, let’s be honest, would drop off if they disappeared. I think it’s fair to say that. Not to say that there would be no tv deal or no prospect of europe, just that the value would reduce. Scottish football would simply just have to cut its cloth accordingly. 

The question is that what we want from a domestic league? People seem to have been fooled into thinking the value of the tv deal and what round we enter Europe is the primary aim of a domestic league. 

There's some truth in the opening paragraph, but I don't really see why any TV deal would be comparable to that of the Irish Republic if, as established by comparing gates, our game would still have much higher levels of interest.

Your second paragraph is exactly right.  I'd also throw in the idea of how our domestic game is perceived elsewhere.  I honestly couldn't care less about that, but it seems to matter to some people.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Monkey Tennis

[Dons_1988]

13 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

There's some truth in the opening paragraph, but I don't really see why any TV deal would be comparable to that the Irish republic if, as established by comparing gates, our game would still have much higher levels of interest.

Your second paragraph is exactly right.  I'd also throw in the idea of how our domestic game is perceived elsewhere.  I honestly couldn't care less about that, but it seems to matter to some people.

I wasn’t saying we’d have an equivalent deal to the league of Ireland, merely that it would reduce on their departure, which I think is unarguable. Basically the ‘we’ll be like the LoI’ trope just means sky sports won’t be interested. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Dons_1988

[Trackdaybob]

27 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Scottish football would simply just have to cut its cloth accordingly. 

Exactly. And that would be just fine. 

[DA Baracus]

Football isn't the top sport in Ireland. It is here.

[Salvo Montalbano]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

I wasn’t saying we’d have an equivalent deal to the league of Ireland, merely that it would reduce on their departure, which I think is unarguable. Basically the ‘we’ll be like the LoI’ trope just means sky sports won’t be interested. 

They might pay money but Sky Sports aren't interested as it is.

[velo army]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

I wasn’t saying we’d have an equivalent deal to the league of Ireland, merely that it would reduce on their departure, which I think is unarguable. Basically the ‘we’ll be like the LoI’ trope just means sky sports won’t be interested. 

This would be absolute bliss tbf. 

In European terms we'd find our level. It would mean that clubs here would have next to nothing to do with the Champions' League, but would instead more realistically aim to go further in the conference league, or reach the Europa group stages. I'd be grand with that as the champions League is fucking boring. 

The other thing that would excite me is the possibility of real innovation and creativity. Without Sky the SPFL could have kick off times based around the needs and wishes of supporters. Without the OF we could change the voting structure and, with fan ownership increasingly prevalent, governance could be more democratic.

We can but dream though.