cowdenbeath Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 38 minutes ago, Connor7 said: Haha shots fired. Or even better… relegate all the yes voters of the B teams. Changing the subject, some big crowds in the west yesterday with Pollok and the Clydebank games. Clydebank currently top of the league, be great to see them come up. Replacing them with either Edinburgh uni or Gretna. Or hopefully both Think most clubs would want Bankies up as they would bring a decent away support same with the Lok. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekok Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Hi just one simple comment. If the teams that formed the original Lowland League had not taken a leap of faith, most unlikely there would even be a Pyramid. Yes it has its faults, including promotion / relegation all the way through. To read posters talking about " get rid of the rubbish, etc " is as offensive as it is uninformed. Some excellent posts on this thread as well, maybe if more people took a more positive take on where we are, rather than cloud cloud cuckoo land we might actually get an improved set up , 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmas Enigma Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, ekok said: Hi just one simple comment. If the teams that formed the original Lowland League had not taken a leap of faith, most unlikely there would even be a Pyramid. Yes it has its faults, including promotion / relegation all the way through. To read posters talking about " get rid of the rubbish, etc " is as offensive as it is uninformed. Some excellent posts on this thread as well, maybe if more people took a more positive take on where we are, rather than cloud cloud cuckoo land we might actually get an improved set up , Agree 100%. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, ekok said: Hi just one simple comment. If the teams that formed the original Lowland League had not taken a leap of faith, most unlikely there would even be a Pyramid. Yes it has its faults, including promotion / relegation all the way through. To read posters talking about " get rid of the rubbish, etc " is as offensive as it is uninformed. Some excellent posts on this thread as well, maybe if more people took a more positive take on where we are, rather than cloud cloud cuckoo land we might actually get an improved set up , You can keep saying that, but there is absolutely no excuse for not opening up relegation to tier 6. Connecting it to promotion/relegation with the SPFL is really just a very poor excuse. And with the recent vote to keep those useless B-teams that devalue the league, those clubs haven't exactly won any respect... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekok Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Grandmas Enigma said: Agree 100%. I knew you would , you get it . -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To B or not B Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 10 minutes ago, ekok said: Hi just one simple comment. If the teams that formed the original Lowland League had not taken a leap of faith, most unlikely there would even be a Pyramid. Yes it has its faults, including promotion / relegation all the way through. To read posters talking about " get rid of the rubbish, etc " is as offensive as it is uninformed. Some excellent posts on this thread as well, maybe if more people took a more positive take on where we are, rather than cloud cloud cuckoo land we might actually get an improved set up , We would have had an improved set up if teams like yours had voted to keep the B teams out. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 34 minutes ago, ekok said: Hi just one simple comment. If the teams that formed the original Lowland League had not taken a leap of faith, most unlikely there would even be a Pyramid. Yes it has its faults, including promotion / relegation all the way through. To read posters talking about " get rid of the rubbish, etc " is as offensive as it is uninformed. Some excellent posts on this thread as well, maybe if more people took a more positive take on where we are, rather than cloud cloud cuckoo land we might actually get an improved set up , I don't think it was much of a leap of faith. The first season was essentially a glorified EoS Premier plus East Kilbride (EK clearly had nothing to lose by joining). Credit to the clubs involved in forming the league but I'm struggling to see the leap of faith involved. People complaining about potentially 0 relegation slots in the Lowland League or others being positive about the pyramid isn't going to change things. That comes down to the clubs themselves being willing to vote for increased relegation, vote against B teams etc. So far, clearly, the majority are unwilling to do so. Edited January 14 by stanley 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmas Enigma Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 10 minutes ago, stanley said: I don't think it was much of a leap of faith. The first season was essentially a glorified EoS Premier plus East Kilbride (EK clearly had nothing to lose by joining). Credit to the clubs involved in forming the league but I'm struggling to see the leap of faith involved. People complaining about potentially 0 relegation slots in the Lowland League or others being positive about the pyramid isn't going to change things. That comes down to the clubs themselves being willing to vote for increased relegation, vote against B teams etc. So far, clearly, the majority are unwilling to do so. So many teams including two already promoted joined EoS after the lowland leagues inception, since the lowland league has solidified itself. So it’s fair to say ‘the leap of faith’ was joining when it was perceived as a risky venture. Which clearly stopped many teams from joining when it was easier. There was always the understanding that the first season would have no promotion/relegation and the following season would. But still the majority were not interested in taking the ‘risk’ until it was safe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of Reason Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 38 minutes ago, ekok said: Hi just one simple comment. If the teams that formed the original Lowland League had not taken a leap of faith, most unlikely there would even be a Pyramid. Yes it has its faults, including promotion / relegation all the way through. To read posters talking about " get rid of the rubbish, etc " is as offensive as it is uninformed. Some excellent posts on this thread as well, maybe if more people took a more positive take on where we are, rather than cloud cloud cuckoo land we might actually get an improved set up , This thread has been unusual in that it has generally been a constructive and respectful expression of differing positions. Ultimately, clubs need to justify league membership on the basis of financial fair play, commitment to club licensing and on-field performance. The clubs rather patronisingly referred to as "rubbish" will find their own level but it was their hard work and commitment that means there is a Lowland League and a pyramid system for clubs like Bonnyrigg, Edinburgh City, Kelty, Spartans and Cove to also have the opportunity to find their own (higher) level. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Grandmas Enigma said: So many teams including two already promoted joined EoS after the lowland leagues inception, since the lowland league has solidified itself. So it’s fair to say ‘the leap of faith’ was joining when it was perceived as a risky venture. Which clearly stopped many teams from joining when it was easier. There was always the understanding that the first season would have no promotion/relegation and the following season would. But still the majority were not interested in taking the ‘risk’ until it was safe. The risk involved in joining the Lowland League in its first season varied massively depending on which league the club was playing in at the time. There was very little risk involved in 9 EoS clubs joining the league and continuing to play mostly the same teams as before and remaining in the senior set up with a chance of possible promotion in the future to the SPFL. There was more risk for Threave and Dalbeattie who had already tried out the EoS and gone back to the SoS but they still had the option to go back to the SoS if it didn't work out (as Threave did when they resigned from the Lowland League). I can't see any risk at all for East Kilbride who took advantage of the opportunity. There was huge risk involved for any of the big West/East junior clubs in giving up their position in the juniors and moving to the Lowland League just like Kelty took a big risk in moving to the EoS. "Leap of faith" seems like a strong term for what the original 12 clubs did in joining the league. Again, credit to the clubs who started in the Lowland League in the first season and helped set up the pyramid for the future. They had to work on their grounds, get licensed etc. Regardless, that's really a separate discussion to clubs voting against increased relegation and voting in favour of B teams. It doesn't really matter what happened in 2013 when we're talking about the future of the league. Edited January 14 by stanley 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmas Enigma Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, stanley said: The risk involved in joining the Lowland League in its first season varied massively depending on which league the club was playing in at the time. There was very little risk involved in 9 EoS clubs joining the league and continuing to play mostly the same teams as before and remaining in the senior set up with a chance of possible promotion in the future to the SPFL. There was more risk for Threave and Dalbeattie who had already tried out the EoS and gone back to the SoS but they still had the option to go back to the SoS if it didn't work out (as Threave did when they resigned from the Lowland League). I can't see any risk at all for East Kilbride who took advantage of the opportunity. There was huge risk involved for any of the big West/East junior clubs in giving up their position in the juniors and moving to the Lowland League just like Kelty took a big risk in moving to the EoS. There's certainly no way it was a "leap of faith" for the EoS clubs. Again, credit to the clubs who started in the Lowland League and helped set up the pyramid for the future but that's really a separate discussion to clubs voting against increased relegation and voting in favour of B teams. It doesn't really matter what happened in 2013 when we're talking about the future of the league. So you agree there was a variable risk and therefore a ‘leap of faith’?1 You could argue that if it hadn’t worked out all teams involved could have gone back to their previous respective leagues. The SJFA at the time was desperate not to lose its big hitters and would have had them back if the opportunity had arisen. I think we appear to agree if not for semantics. As you rightly infer the future of the league now is most important, not 2013. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevsmart Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Grandmas Enigma said: It has been said before I think... But the lowland league can clearly function successfully with 18/19 teams as we've seen with the 'b' sides. Get rid of them, change the leagues stipulation of 16 lowland teams to 18 and increase relegation/promotion places. Ideally the bottom club in league two would be relegated without playoff and the playoff winner between highland and lowland would go up. Obviously this is less likely to happen but we are dealing with many hypotheticals already anyway. Would be better if Club 41 & 42 were automatically relegated and replaced with the winners of the HFL & LL 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmas Enigma Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, kevsmart said: Would be better if Club 41 & 42 were automatically relegated and replaced with the winners of the HFL & LL Numerically that would be ideal. Although what if 41 and 42 were both from the same league?! There are always so many complications. The whole system needs re- worked! -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 11 minutes ago, kevsmart said: Would be better if Club 41 & 42 were automatically relegated and replaced with the winners of the HFL & LL This is cloud cuckoo land stuff. There aren’t two automatic relegation spots from any of the SPFL tiers so why should there be through the trapdoor? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmas Enigma Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, Left Back said: This is cloud cuckoo land stuff. There aren’t two automatic relegation spots from any of the SPFL tiers so why should there be through the trapdoor? There aren’t 2 or 3 teams relegated in the other tiers so why should there be in the lowland league?! -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Grandmas Enigma said: There aren’t 2 or 3 teams relegated in the other tiers so why should there be in the lowland league?! I’m not advocating for or against more relegation from the lowland league. Truth be told I don’t care one way or another. The fact it is a bigger league than any of the spfl tiers to me is a better case for more relegation. 2 down automatically from LL wouldn’t be 20% of the league as it would from the ridiculous suggestion above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmas Enigma Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, Left Back said: I’m not advocating for or against more relegation from the lowland league. Truth be told I don’t care one way or another. The fact it is a bigger league than any of the spfl tiers to me is a better case for more relegation. 2 down automatically from LL wouldn’t be 20% of the league as it would from the ridiculous suggestion above. I agree. My point was simply that progress shouldn’t be denied just because others aren’t doing it. In terms of league 2 the recent demise of the 4 relegated teams shows that having an easier/more relegation there would assist in helping every team find their level quicker. One of the main issues I can see is the huge disparity between the number of teams in tier 5 and 6 in the highlands and the number in the lowlands. Making it hugely unfair and more difficult to progress upwards below the river tay due to the numbers involved. The solution would need to involve regionalisation of both tier 5 and 6. But that would require planning, cooperation and restructuring of unimaginable proportions. between SFA, SLFL,SHFL, SPL and hundreds of clubs! Still I like to dream! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekok Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) Agree 100% , the equalisation of the Highland and Lowland leagues, particularly the number and quality of teams in respective feeder leagues is an anomaly that needs addressing. The Highland league know this and keep their heads down and for example their " bottom team ie team 42 equivalent " gets the losers shameful second chance by way of a play off with prospective team coming up from below. Agree should be more ventilation into Lowland League, but at least that abomination is not part of the equation. Edited January 14 by ekok 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 19 minutes ago, ekok said: Agree 100% , the equalisation of the Highland and Lowland leagues, particularly the number and quality of teams in respective feeder leagues is an anomaly that needs addressing. The Highland league know this and keep their heads down and for example their " bottom team ie team 42 equivalent " gets the losers shameful second chance by way of a play off with prospective team coming up from below. Agree should be more ventilation into Lowland League, but at least that abomination is not part of the equation. You seem bitter about playoffs. Wouldn’t have anything to do with kilby bottling them multiple times would it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 13 hours ago, Wee Smiler said: can you clarify - if edinburgh uni resign from LL i understand they would have to join the bottom of the EOS so teir 9??? I'm not in a position to be able to confirm that but strongly suspect that's accurate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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